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Posted by signa11 4 days ago

Grieving the loss of details(purplesyringa.moe)
340 points | 272 commentspage 5
ctoth 7 hours ago|
> Hobbies still exist, but they don’t pay the bills, and increasingly retrocomputing and performance optimization are being infested by LLM fans that seek recognition rather than the experience, which sucks the fun out.

Isn't this whole post seeking...recognition? I am so confused at the metahypocrisy here. Why is it valid to want recognition for something when you do it, but not when someone who uses an LLM does it?

andruby 7 hours ago|
People want recognition when doing something hard that took time, effort and dedication.

Training a year, and running a marathon feels more worthy of recognition than driving 42km in a car from the start to the finish.

While I don't empathize with the defeatist tone of the post. I do empathize with this part.

ctoth 7 hours ago|||
Good thing that programming with LLMs takes time, effort an dedication then!
acedTrex 7 hours ago||
not really? you have people doing it with their voice while driving..
ctoth 7 hours ago||
So because some people use Tinder, does this mean that nobody puts any effort into actually finding the right partner?

Said another way: is it impossible to use something which everybody has access to to make something artful?

Or I will try it a third way. Does the fact that people take bad pictures on their iPhones prevent other people from shooting whole professional movies on iPhones?

acedTrex 7 hours ago||
your message was "Good thing that programming with LLMs takes time, effort an dedication then!"

In answer to that message: taking bad pictures on an iphone is not something celebrate or recognize no.

simianwords 7 hours ago|||
There's a great post I read on twitter on how marathons and Iron Man have come to be the new status signal. The argument was that people who grew up with privileges find it hard to show something they've personally worked for. Every other "achievement" could be attributed to something other than their hard work.

ex: getting a big seed round from a VC for your start up still may show that your parents had connections.

but marathons have this grindability and somewhat stable feedback loop.

EDIT: https://x.com/aporia9n/status/2085413571568222443

coef2 7 hours ago||
Maybe I'll build a Turing machine out of beer cans as a way to grieve my loss.
hn_throwaway_99 8 hours ago||
I commiserated so much with this post. I feel like I got out of software at just the right time - folks like me that have an inherent need to understand the lower level details feel like this agentic coding world, where there is simply not enough time to even read the code, let alone understand it, is hell.

I left software and went into violin making and I couldn't be happier (though of course I'm extremely fortunate to have saved up enough in my software career to comfortably make the transition). In violin making a tenth of a millimeter is considered a lot and we endlessly stress over details like the corner shape and the f-holes. And while some of this nitpicking is certainly excessive, it serves more as proof to show that we're extremely careful with the details so that stuff that really matters, like tonal quality and playability, will also get enough detailed focus.

cseleborg 7 hours ago|
What a charming new career path! And you make an interesting point about signaling attention to detail giving a guarantee of sorts that the things that matter are covered as a matter of course.

Reminds me of a friend who would go straight to the restrooms for a quick visual inspection upon entering a restaurant: if those aren't clean, there's no reason to think the kitchen is.

simontwiggyahuk 6 hours ago||
[flagged]
intended 7 hours ago||
> and performance optimization are being infested by LLM fans that seek recognition rather than the experience

The death of every sub culture in a sentence.

doctorpangloss 6 hours ago||
I don't know. There's always neurology and IP law.
simianwords 7 hours ago||
Humanity itself progressed because people specialised and one doesn't need to know about the entire supply chain of their hamburger to eat it.

A good programmer or a good knowledge worker knows how to work with lossy details.

righthand 8 hours ago||
Yep it’s pretty depressing all around. Even when the truth is revealed about the output of an Llm (not quality, full of errors, made up details, nonsense code, etc), people are still claiming it as a better way of working because they had a chat with it. There is very little room for anyone not interested in slop.

I was recently replaced by a young developer and the only thing that keeps me smiling is that they still haven’t fixed the part of the application I raised concerns about (because the young dev decided to write on a fresh non-compatible stack even after my warnings). I hope eventually it leads to their own loss of career since that’s what they did to me. All of that to say that Llms have made people into over confident morons.

devin 8 hours ago||
Like the old joke about alcohol not "turning" someone into a jerk, but instead revealing the jerk that's been hiding all along, I think the same is true for the idea that LLMs are "turning" people into overconfident morons. I don't believe these people are being changed, I think it's how they always were, and now it's easier to see.
layla5alive 8 hours ago|||
:/ The celebration of loss of rigor does seem like revealed preference.
righthand 5 hours ago||||
Yes that is probably a better way of putting it. We are all overconfident morons until we learn things. Now society has subtracted knowledge share and gain from the equation.
throw-the-towel 4 hours ago|||
Eh, but so what? Even if everyone really was a jerk, something holding them back from revealing it was still valuable.
rdedev 6 hours ago|||
> All of that to say that Llms have made people into over confident morons

My manager does not have a software background. Initially he used to come to me with an idea and we used to discuss on how we can technically implement it. He used to value what I had to say. Now he talks to copilot, come up with these grand ideas, dumps all that on our heads in a 30 min meeting and ask what do you think about it?

devin 5 hours ago||
"Sounds plausible, boss!"
acedTrex 7 hours ago||
How did this come around? the young developer was just faster overall? or were they cheaper?
righthand 5 hours ago||
My original manager left and my coworker was promoted. They immediately turned face away from the team. They fostered a hostile environment and made sure to not make decisions but instead let our team fight amongst themselves. Then they fired the other two team members without a reason and loaded all the work on to me. Then they would waver between I wasn’t working fast enough and “we can slow down if you need more time” for months while pushing back projects and deadlines because they failed to plan for any of those projects. I tried making amends and focusing on work and not the drama, but they wouldn’t have it. Then they started talking about hiring two new juniors for the team. Which I understood to mean they were going to replace me. When one of the juniors started that person was kept away from me and did not meet with me for any onboarding or collaboration. Instead talking to my manager only. Once this happened I still tried to be invested in the projects and pairing with the other new hire. Eventually though a deadline came and I had to explain why the code wasn’t ready when they dropped the new stack they built in private on me days before things were due.

I have no opposition to a new stack but our team already had 6 different projects, two of which were the previous teams next-gen projects. I didn’t want to increase the maintenance surface than we already had with 3 different wordpress sites, 2 nextjs next gen sites, 1 next gen site, and now the new guy’s next project built on vite.

They have a PoC of the new site they released for their semi-annual conferences. It does not work, looks pretty but does not work (essentially because vite has no server API).

So yes, it was an operating capital reduction measure or wage stagnation or whatever you want to call it. I’ve never had a manager that didn’t go to bat for me or passed blame for their failings onto me until that job. Apparently C-suite had developed a culture for pointing fingers.

igl 8 hours ago|
I think part of the grief is losing the way we learned to do something we loved. Most people care about what software does, not how we made it. The hard part is accepting that what makes the job satisfying for us isn’t always what makes the result useful to others.
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