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Posted by ilreb 9 hours ago

Cloudflare acquires Deno(deno.com)
960 points | 503 commentspage 2
phaser 9 hours ago|
I’m happy if this means Deno is able to get a second impulse. I use Deno daily and while it’s true that it’s in this weird position where it’s not sexy like bun or enterprise-y like node, it has a great developer experience. a no-surprises runtime that does a lot of interesting things the right way (like compile to desktop to a browser-less webgpu runtime), the vscode extension is flawless and overall the perfect balance of batteries included without bloat.

of course i’m only talking about deno, the technology not deno, the cloud service.

pimterry 9 hours ago||
> I’m happy if this means Deno is able to get a second impulse

Bad news, sorry, the article says:

> We will support the Deno runtime for another year with monthly releases containing bug fixes and security updates. After that year we will end our development of the Deno runtime.

Sounds like Celld will live on within workerd, Deno is over.

mzajc 9 hours ago|||
> I’m happy if this means Deno is able to get a second impulse.

From TFA: We will support the Deno runtime for another year with monthly releases containing bug fixes and security updates. After that year we will end our development of the Deno runtime.

weli 9 hours ago|||
read the blogpost, they are discontinuing deno after 1 year
adobrawy 8 hours ago|||
The fact that Deno development is being suspended doesn't mean the community can't step in. The Deno runtime is licensed under MIT. Such forks might be impulse to grow even further.
bayindirh 1 hour ago|||
Or, we can also speculate that after one year, Cloudflare will create an internal Deno fork and will continue to reap the benefits and improvements.

Again, thanks to the MIT license.

shimman 6 hours ago|||
People always say this but it's always an extreme mixed bag where most developers/maintainers just move on.
phaser 8 hours ago|||
it’s open source. i’m hoping it gets picked up by the community. maybe i’m just too hopeful
its-summertime 7 hours ago||
The majority of the last year's development has been via LLM. I don't think anyone is going to want to fork that when they can just tell an LLM to do whatever and get the same result
TheRoque 8 hours ago||
Damn. Deno is a super old project, in 2018 the Nodejs creator did the talk "things I hate about NodeJS" and introduced Deno. It's 8 years ago now, and clearly even though the project was known by most Node users, it didn't gain any traction at all. I don't even remember "the bad parts" that Deno tries to solve, were they that bad at all ? Anyways Node will keep evolving and implement new features, new standards, optimization. I think it's super risky to move to an alternative. In the age of the LLMs, if you wanna get out of Node, you better translate all to native Go or Rust.
kaoD 7 hours ago||
8 years is not super old, or even old. It's important to understand software maturity cycles for core components.
yipinwong 7 hours ago|||
"old" is relative term. Given @TheRogue's account is 4 years old, maybe new to field. If so, it feels "old".

I understand your sentiment of justifying not being "old". but you gotta bring up "legacy code".

"Working Effectively with Legacy Code" defines legacy code as code without tests thus hard to change it easily or with confidence.

So either @TheGuardian is discussing about the age of software relative to his/her perspective or confused "legacy code" without understanding deno code base.

hbn 7 hours ago|||
If 8 years is "super old" in terms of software, what is Windows? Or Emacs? Or old Fortran software from the 50s in the Voyager software?
yipinwong 6 hours ago|||
Define "super old" or just "old".

It's relative measurement. When you are 9th grader, even a freshman college student feels way older.

But as you are in your 30s, you feel less of difference.

Same thing here, How do you define Windows and Emacs being "old"? For those who's been using it for decades, not as old as Voyager software. For those who lived through those times, Windows and Emacs feels younger.

See where I am going with it?

---

If you have a nephew or a kid, they will say you are "old". But your parents will consider you "young" for the rest of their lives.

1dom 6 hours ago||
In the context of software, I think "how old is old" depends on how web based the software has been over its lifetime.

I think 8 years is old for software that has heavily Web based like Deno. But Windows and Emacs have had portions of their lifetime without the Web in a meaningful way, so 8 years would be young.

yipinwong 5 hours ago||
ty. I like this over others as it uses the "web" as the basis for relativity.
tosti 2 hours ago|||
Ancient
bilalq 6 hours ago|||
> "Working Effectively with Legacy Code" defines legacy code as code without tests thus hard to change it easily or with confidence.

This is not a universally accepted definition. I've owned plenty of services with 95%+ unit test coverage, massive integ test suites, and synthetic canary tests that ran every minute that I would consider legacy. Plenty of AI slop today gets barfed out with 100% test coverage, but much of it is legacy from day 1.

yipinwong 5 hours ago||
I aggree thre are many defs. I only used that ex as it's easy to use and understand.

What would you consider legacy? (not trynna fight, just wondering what you consider as one)

bilalq 1 hour ago||
Workloads that either are superseded or there is a desire to supersede them. It's not just old deprecated stuff, but also stuff that people want to deprecate.

An example could be old API endpoints only hit by old versions of a mobile app where users may be slow to update. Or a case where only newer clients/instances support modern features and old ones are stuck on a frozen featureset until they cutover.

But active services with no immediately existant alternative may also be legacy. If your auth is behind a disappointing managed service like AWS Cognito, you may consider your entire auth stack legacy while the replacement is still looming in the roadmap down the line. Maybe you can't justify funding to work on a transition just yet, but you already would avoid building on top of the existing tech stack.

SenHeng 7 hours ago||||
It may not be old, but it sure hasn’t caught on much after 8 years. I did remember a lot of posts about migrating cloud functions/lambdas to deno initially, but not much since.

I’m taking the stance that no news is bad news here. If it was good, people would be doing Resume Driven Dev with deno and we would be buried in those articles. Alas.

hbn 7 hours ago||||
Also it didn't hit 1.0 until 2020 so it's more accurate to say it's 6 years old.
TheRoque 7 hours ago|||
It's not that old, but it's old enough that it should have gained a bit of traction, it should have been mentioned in more discussions etc. And ultimately adopted more. It's purely a gut feeling though because I didn't run any numbers
goosejuice 7 hours ago|||
> I don't even remember "the bad parts" that Deno tries to solve, were they that bad at all ?

Well node and bun sought to solve the same problems after Deno demonstrated a path. They got to learn from Deno's mistakes as well.

etatester 6 hours ago||
To me Deno died the day it decided to not support npm packages and died again when it started supporting it.

Ironically the reason why I hated it when it was introduced was the reason why they added support for npm (i.e. absolute URLs don't support semver and therefore you will load multiple versions)

mahboi 2 hours ago|||
In what way does supporting npm packages compromise Deno's design? I don't know a lot about Deno but thought it was more about rewriting in Rust, more batteries included like native TS support, and more secure defaults.
nonethewiser 5 hours ago|||
Once Deno's direction became clear, success seemed unlikely.
pimterry 9 hours ago||
The Cloudflare side is also worth a read: https://blog.cloudflare.com/deno-joins-cloudflare/
wewewedxfgdf 6 hours ago||
Deno should never have been a business - there's no business model.

And worse for Deno - nodejs may not be great but it's good enough.

And may you never have an incumbent competitor that is is "good enough" - it will be your downfall.

duesabati 8 hours ago||
Insane, I'm deeply saddened and embittered, I don't want to go back to NodeJS and I don't find any advantage in Bun. I guess this is my sign to just get off of JavaScript entirely.
jesse_dot_id 5 hours ago||
Whatever allows you to make stuff is good enough.
duesabati 2 hours ago||
you are definitely right, thank you for this reminder, it's just that I'm a bit tired of managing trash like NodeJS
white_dragon88 6 hours ago||
[dead]
tiborsaas 9 hours ago||
Congrats on the exit :)

Finally, the next step of forking Node is up for grabs:

Node > Deno > Done (anyone?)

Latty 5 hours ago||
Oned maybe.
bsoqk 9 hours ago||
And then Danone.
khalidkhair 9 hours ago||
This one might have to be spooned
nateb2022 8 hours ago||
Sounds like something Bending Spoons would like
greeniskool 3 hours ago||
I wonder how this will affect Bunny's competitor to Cloudflare Workers, Edge Scripting [1] -- which runs on Deno.

[1] https://bunny.net/docs/scripting/

wg0 8 hours ago||
This might not be seen in much favourable light by many but IMO Cloudflare has the most elegant serveless PaaS as I have seen to date.

The design and architecture is extremely minimal to the point that all of it can be explained on a single A4 page with a 14pt font including D1 + Durable objects. And I hope that it stays that way.

It has all the primitives that you can wish for to build a software system on top of it be it queues, long running jobs, workflows, pipelines, email handlers, cron jobs and even built in AI models ready for you to be invoked.

ATM - it is extremely cheap, reliable, simpler and more capable than anything out there. Deno itself had very little scope anyway because almost no developer tooling is sellable in this environment even more so post AI. Therefore, it is going to accelerate the Cloudflare platform to be the best in class and hopefully not complex and bloated.

AznHisoka 8 hours ago||
I think the biggest thing Cloudflare needs to buy is some sort of Postgres-database service. They've already cornered the market for everything front-end/serverless
bilalq 5 hours ago||
Cloudflare could make the biggest impact by doing something similar to AWS DSQL. There are very few options in the multi-region replicated space, and it ties in nicely with their edge workers.
shados 8 hours ago|||
D1 is their bet there but considering hyperdrive, a real Postgres would be cool.

I also wish they expanded jurisdiction more. I worked at companies that couldn't use Cloudflare because of specific location requirements in contracts

CuriouslyC 8 hours ago||
D1 is a very different product. D1 is designed to be tenant sharded for any real workloads.

If they bought Neon that'd be a coup.

mj4e 2 hours ago||
PlanetScale might be more likely as Neon was bought by Databricks.
eknkc 8 hours ago|||
Yeah. D1 is nice and easy but a serverless postgres offering would make a significant difference.
HatchedLake721 7 hours ago||
Planetscale?
255kb 2 hours ago|
It seems VC money is not really compatible with open source
mahboi 2 hours ago|
Maybe they all learned their lesson from Docker giving away the entire product for free
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