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Posted by ohjeez 7 hours ago

Germany transforms former coal mines into Europe's largest lake landscape(www.euronews.com)
164 points | 91 commentspage 2
ixxie 4 hours ago|
Cool, but how is this bigger than, e.g. East Finland's lake landscape?
Someone 4 hours ago|
The title is incorrect. The articles’s text adds “artificial”:

“Part of Lusatian Lakeland – now Europe's largest artificial water landscape”

Even that’s debatable, I think, given, for example:

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alqueva_Dam: a 250 km² artificial lake

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volgograd_Reservoir: over 3,000km²

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IJsselmeer: 1,100km²

=> it depends on such things as whether you call a reservoir a lake, how you define “water landscape”, etc.

nephihaha 2 hours ago||
This is a great idea. I think there are issues with possible contaminants but if that can be sorted...
ed_balls 5 hours ago||
I wish someone would try to convert them in geothermal plant.
Quarrelsome 5 hours ago|
I think you need to go much, much, much deeper for that.
ed_balls 4 hours ago|||
I was thinking about hybrid approach. Drilling to 5km and get water that has 200 C and use natural gas to provide additional heat to produce steam at 374°C.

Alternatively, flood the mineshafts and set up heat exchangers. Wait for Co2 turbines to become viable and get rid of gas.

yangm97 5 hours ago|||
Millimeter wave boring (aka death star laser) is supposed to help with that.
nurettin 6 hours ago||
Germany is pretty famous for tagebaurekultivierung.
ant6n 6 hours ago|
The Tagebaurekultivierungsaktivitäten have been going on for a long time. I remember visiting some former open pit in the 90s, as they started filling it, noting how it would take like 10 years or so. Pretty strange land.
jcattle 6 hours ago||
10 years? That's nothing. Flooding Hambach will take approximately 40 years. And that includes water from the Rhine carried there by pipeline, which in the current state of the Rhine is... optimistic.
7e 5 hours ago||
Is it safe to recreate in water that has been exposed to all of that mining slough?
wg0 7 hours ago||
Now please bring back solar + nuclear energy and stop pretending that burning oil is cleaner.
eigenspace 7 hours ago||
Why mention nuclear but not wind? Wind has nearly as low an LCOE as solar, and is still dropping too, and wind power is anti-correlated with solar power, meaning we get more wind at night and in the winter.
wg0 6 hours ago|||
Yeah wind too.
dgellow 6 hours ago||||
The north, where I live, has lots of windmills and more is being built
cbmuser 6 hours ago|||
> Wind has nearly as low an LCOE as solar

Because production costs aren't what's setting the prices, supply and demand is.

Cheap solar and wind power doesn't help when it's not available.

mejutoco 5 hours ago||
How much less of a problem is this as batteries improve? Honest question, I never saw this quantified.
StromFLIX 5 hours ago||
It's in german but quite interesting article regarding this : https://www.solarserver.de/2025/12/19/analyse-dunkelflauten-...
mejutoco 3 hours ago||
What is the insight there about solar and wind depending on sun and wind and how batteries change that? It would be interesting to quantify that. Is there a relevant number in that page?
Zigurd 6 hours ago|||
One of these things is not like the other. You can have solar next week at a reliable price and you'll be able to buy insurance for your solar array on the private market. Nuclear isn't going to happen no matter how many data center projects get hyped. No nuclear project will be complete before we're all talking about data centers like we talk about the Metaverse.
sharpshadow 6 hours ago|||
Good luck with solar in Germany when you will be paying a fee for feeding in energy to the grid during solar peek time from 2027 onwards.
1718627440 5 hours ago|||
Why would that be unreasonable? Generating some power somewhere, sometime isn't hard. Generating the right amount at the right time in the right location is. (In other words logistics.)

So yeah the cost is in moving and storing the electricity by maintaining and expanding the infrastructure.

mejutoco 5 hours ago|||
Do you have a source? Can you "waste" that energy instead of feeding it in?
sharpshadow 18 minutes ago|||
It's the new EEG 2027 Amendment which changes things fundamentally. Instead of receiving a flat payout per kwh, installing and connecting a new solar installation from 2027 will be under market condition contracts and depending on the contract has maybe to pay a fee when feeding in during negative price times. The incentive now changed from 'we need to get solar and pay for the electricity' to 'store your electricity and use it yourself'. All existing solar installations before 2027 will continue to receive the flat payout when feeding in the power for 20 years.
fc417fc802 2 hours ago||||
It's solar so you can literally just unplug it. Although at the scale of an individual house you can just unplug (or otherwise deactivate) pretty much anything. It's the industrial scale stuff that can't be adjusted on a dime.
artisinal 2 hours ago||
I could probably make a small PCB with a light sensor, that disconnects the solar panels (through a relay) once sunlight hits the sensor. So you aren't paying any fees for supplying the grid with energy.
martin_a 4 hours ago|||
Why not store it in small and large battery systems and use it later?
mejutoco 3 hours ago||
Much better yes. I am just thinking that worse case one could burn it to not have to pay, so in reality having to pay would not be a problem.
soco 7 hours ago|||
Added 17GW solar in the last 12 months, reached 129GW: https://solarzubau.de/deutschland/
cbmuser 6 hours ago||
Cool, these are currently supplying 0.06% of their installed capacity:

https://app.electricitymaps.com/map/zone/DE/fifteen_minutes

Very useful.

martin_a 4 hours ago||
Yes, because we failed to invest in storage systems for the last... 25 years or so...

If we would have, it would look much different now.

BlackRabbit1 7 hours ago||
We are currently busy building new gas turbines. lol.
eigenspace 7 hours ago|||
Even if the number of gas turbines will increase (it's not increasing nearly as much as you'd think if you just look at the number being built, because old ones are also being decomissioned), the amount of gas being burnt on an annual level is going to be going down. These gas plants are for bridging gaps left open by wind and solar which cannot yet be covered by batteries.

If you believe in the transition to renewables, Germany fundamentally does still need gas turbines to make that happen, more than we currently have.

bryanlarsen 7 hours ago||||
That's not inconsistent. A robust grid will have enough capacity of any sort to cover peak demand during a dankelflaute but enough zero-emissions generation and storage to cover generation at all other times.

And that's exactly what Germany is doing. Their natural gas plants only run ~15% of the time. Usage is going down faster than capacity is going up.

https://unpopular-truth.com/2024/07/05/natures-influence-on-...

Tomte 7 hours ago|||
Because everyone copies it: the word is Dunkelflaute. U, not a.
KyleTheDev 7 hours ago||||
TIL Dankelflaute, a time when it is too dark with too little wind for either solar or wind energy generation. Thank you for this amazing word.
bryanlarsen 7 hours ago||
It has to be scoped by area. A Dankelflaute that covers the European continent has never been observed. OTOH, a Dankelflaute that covers only Germany is a regular occurrence.
cbmuser 6 hours ago||
So, you're telling me there is daylight in Spain when we have night in Germany?

Also, have you ever done some research on how winds work? They're usually blowing (or not blowing) across the whole continent.

So, yeah, Dunkelflauten usually cover the whole continent.

bryanlarsen 5 hours ago||
I'm saying there is always wind blowing somewhere on the continent. For the time period where we have had widespread measurement of wind speeds continent wide, there has never been an hour without enough wind to turn a generator in some location.

https://communities.springernature.com/posts/quantifying-the...

e2le 6 hours ago|||
I'm sceptical that more gas turbines doesn't create a more vulnerable grid. The possibility of gas shortages this winter is on the horizon and if the UK were to cease exports for whatever reason it would be a disaster for the rest of Europe.

Ed Conway released a video on the UK's gas network and disaster planning[0].

As shown in their documentary, a shutdown of exports to Europe would only require 2 or 3 failure events (low production from wind/solar, high-usage of gas for power/heating, disruption or cessation of imports via gas-tankers, well-placed damage to the gas network, extreme weather in the north sea). To maintain pressure in the gas network, they would begin shedding the largest loads first, exports to mainland Europe is #1 on that list.

Let's also not forget Nordstream and the disaster that caused when it mysteriously blew up. Before those pipelines exploded, there were protests in Germany because people were struggling to heat their homes.

Nuclear isn't vulnerable to any of these issues, we're very lucky that construction and investment has continued these past decades. /s

[0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKDnZz4wypI

bryanlarsen 5 hours ago||
Capacity isn't the problem, usage is. If Europe reduced its usage to about 10% of current usage, full tanks would last a full year.

Nuclear is unsuited for this problem. Europe needs something that will supply approximately all of its power needs for only a few days a year. Europe already has enough natural gas storage to do this. If you built enough nuclear to cover all its power needs for a few days a year you'd have enough nuclear to supply all its power needs 365 days a year. That would work great, but it would cost tens of trillions.

thelastgallon 5 hours ago||
Maybe these can help https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karpowership
cbmuser 6 hours ago||||
We have to build new gas turbines since wind and solar do not provide dispatchable power.
rdudek 7 hours ago|||
I hear there is a shortage of blades for the turbines.
Krasnol 3 hours ago||
Where did you hear that?

I could only find news on the opposite: https://www.oedigital.com/amp/news/540213-siemens-gamesa-ceo...

philipkglass 2 hours ago||
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dang 5 hours ago||
We changed the URL above from https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/europe/germany-is-... to an article that has more information.
hndhyc0bdt 7 hours ago||
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xbar 5 hours ago|
I feel bad for the post-apocalypse folks who won't be able to find any dry, solid fuel to burn.
giardini 5 hours ago|
I dunno:

1. There should be plenty broken up press board after the apocalypse. It is apparently quite flammable but sometimes gives off bad emissions. Perhaps you should set up a website where people can print a guide to press board emissions, so we all will know which to cook foods with and which to only heat with.

2. And there should be plenty of auto tires. Here's a fella who needs only a few tires each day to heat a 12' x 16' corrugated metal siding workshop:

https://www.farmshow.com/view_articles.php?a_id=1072

Another article with photos:

https://www.farmshow.com/a_download_page.php?aid=MzI4Nw==

3. Finally we see:

"Study Shows Dangerous Plastics Are Being Used As Fuel To Heat Homes":

https://www.slashgear.com/2075676/plastic-fuel-burning-heat-...

So I don't see a problem finding dry combustible fuel, In fact gathering fuel will be somewhat like gathering manna in the desert!8-))