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Posted by zetalyrae 1 hour ago

No Man Is an Island(borretti.me)
171 points | 78 comments
varenc 47 minutes ago|
The whole John Donne meditation the title is referencing:

    No man is an island,
    Entire of itself;
    Every man is a piece of the continent,
    A part of the main.
    
    If a clod be washed away by the sea,
    Europe is the less,
    As well as if a promontory were:
    As well as if a manor of thy friend's
    Or of thine own were.
    
    Any man's death diminishes me,
    Because I am involved in mankind.
    And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls;
    It tolls for thee
(had to memorize it in High School, and its one of my favorites. It was written over 400 years ago and has aged quite well.)
PyWoody 18 minutes ago||
Not totally related but The Tuft of Flowers by Robert Frost always reminds me Donne's.

  The Tuft of Flowers
  
  I went to turn the grass once after one
  Who mowed it in the dew before the sun.
 
  The dew was gone that made his blade so keen
  Before I came to view the levelled scene.
 
  I looked for him behind an isle of trees;
  I listened for his whetstone on the breeze.
 
  But he had gone his way, the grass all mown,
  And I must be, as he had been,—alone,
 
  ‘As all must be,’ I said within my heart,
  ‘Whether they work together or apart.’
 
  But as I said it, swift there passed me by
  On noiseless wing a ‘wildered butterfly,
 
  Seeking with memories grown dim o’er night
  Some resting flower of yesterday’s delight.
 
  And once I marked his flight go round and round,
  As where some flower lay withering on the ground.
 
  And then he flew as far as eye could see,
  And then on tremulous wing came back to me.
 
  I thought of questions that have no reply,
  And would have turned to toss the grass to dry;
 
  But he turned first, and led my eye to look
  At a tall tuft of flowers beside a brook,
 
  A leaping tongue of bloom the scythe had spared
  Beside a reedy brook the scythe had bared.
 
  I left my place to know them by their name,
  Finding them butterfly weed when I came.
 
  The mower in the dew had loved them thus,
  By leaving them to flourish, not for us,
 
  Nor yet to draw one thought of ours to him.
  But from sheer morning gladness at the brim.
 
  The butterfly and I had lit upon,
  Nevertheless, a message from the dawn,
 
  That made me hear the wakening birds around,
  And hear his long scythe whispering to the ground,
 
  And feel a spirit kindred to my own;
  So that henceforth I worked no more alone;
 
  But glad with him, I worked as with his aid,
  And weary, sought at noon with him the shade;
 
  And dreaming, as it were, held brotherly speech
  With one whose thought I had not hoped to reach.
 
  ‘Men work together,’ I told him from the heart,
  ‘Whether they work together or apart.’
arctic-true 40 minutes ago|||
Hemingway also borrowed the penultimate line in For Whom The Bell Tolls. I also had to memorize this back in the day but I still stop to read it whenever I see it somewhere.
card_zero 22 minutes ago||
Metallica then borrowed it from Hemingway. Then there was apparently also an uplifting Bee Gees number but presumably not inspired by 'tallica.
chrisfosterelli 1 hour ago||
This is well put and something I think a lot of us struggle with.

The internet itself seems filled with the AI maximalists who have no end of hype for the latest prompt 'technique' or AI doomers that would skin you alive if you mention you used AI to make a photo once.

Quietly among peers I talk to there seems to be a very different group that exists: those that recognize AI is super valuable for getting a lot of work done but also feel that suddenly the work is so much less exciting than it was before.

Sure, there's the obvious "I enjoy the mechanics of programming" component that's gone but then there's also this general feeling that is hard to shake which feels a little deeper. I've wondered about it. Is it all the layoffs? The suddenly shaky economics for a lot of our companies? The uncertainty of the career's future in general?

I think the author has put their thumb on it well to describe it as a lack of intellectual community. That feels like at least part of it.

xg15 1 minute ago||
> then there's also this general feeling that is hard to shake which feels a little deeper. I've wondered about it.

I had an instance of the feeling (and also what the OP is describing) when writing a post about a technical question recently.

Previously, I'd have posted the question to HN or Stack Overflow - and, in addition to hopefully getting a solution, it might also become a resource for other people who had the same question. Finally, maybe there would have been some interesting discussion around the question.

Now: Ask the AI. Instant answer, question solved, but also, nothing else.

ThrowawayR2 18 minutes ago|||
> "Is it all the layoffs? The suddenly shaky economics for a lot of our companies? The uncertainty of the career's future in general?"

I'd say that those make up the majority of it. During the dotcom bust, there were waves of bankruptcies and layoffs, tech stock valuations crashing and staying stagnant, and people struggling to find jobs for months, etc. too and there was industry-wide doom and gloom and pundits proclaiming that software was no longer worth getting into. So all this angst seems very familiar. People would probably not be as bothered about AI if the the career outlook was positive.

caaqil 55 minutes ago||
> a lack of intellectual community.

The issue may be simpler than that. The technical cohort that's on the chopping block of automation right now uses seemingly sophisticated words to basically describe what the coal miners and human calculators felt in the past. When you compound this with the general struggle on the social skills dimension that defines the majority of this group, you can see why the idea of stepping out of their respective narrow field and getting a hobby would seem ludicrous.

switchbak 22 minutes ago|||
There's always some anxiety around job security, that's nothing new. I've been around enough rounds of that to know it well. This isn't that.

We're talking about a fundamental disruption of knowledge work, to know that you might not even be able to pivot to something else. It's kind of like when people would callously tell the coal miners to "learn to code", except it's now "learn to be an electrician".

But I don't feel you're really acting in good faith here, with your negative stereotypes and derisive language.

caaqil 3 minutes ago||
So: the anxiety is real and not new, but this phase of automation is really unique and different, because of "fundamental" "disruption" of "knowledge work". Consider me convinced, since this line of reasoning is original and not accounted for in the comment you're replying to.
ok_dad 39 minutes ago|||
Yea it’s probably deep seated horror at slowly being replaced. I’m not sure what I feel but ordering a clanker around everyday is exhausting both emotionally and intellectually. I would rather not even talk to the thing, but they fucking suck at software architecture no matter what anyone says. You can’t just leave them alone with a task because you get the worst designs 7/10 times. The other 3/10 scare me enough that I’ve started learning how to install solar and battery systems online.

I should probably read something about past instances of this; you mentioned coal miners and maybe hearing their stories will help us.

georgemcbay 8 minutes ago||
> I should probably read something about past instances of this; you mentioned coal miners and maybe hearing their stories will help us.

IMO it probably won't make you feel any better, for the following reasons:

1) The AI disruption is going to be far wider than any previous disruption, people will have much less chance to pivot to something else while continuing to do economically productive work, because not just one field is in danger, every field based on cognitive work is in danger (and all the manual labor isn't too far behind with robotics advances).

2) Even despite the more limited blast radius of prior work disruptions, they were still generally awful for the people who got disrupted. People love to cheerily talk about how the industrial revolution lead to a world of more, different, better, safer jobs and while that did happen, the newer world wasn't really for the people who were displaced, but rather people of the next generations. The people who were actively displaced were mostly hard fucked... economically destitute and emotionally damaged from loss of purpose.

ChickeNES 3 minutes ago||
Nah, my wife is from an old coal mining family; her and her family are VASTLY better off than their immediate ancestors. I’d also suspect if said ancestors were alive now, they’d be happy to know that their descendants live in vastly better and safer world
dominicholmes 49 minutes ago||
I really liked this. I've felt the exact thing the author is describing - I used to care a lot about my craft (iOS apps), and that has been blown apart by AI. Not that craft and taste isn't still a differentiator - I think it's just so much less satisfying to create something perfect over weeks, if you can get 80% of the way in an afternoon.

"Private intellectual activity that is sustained, complex, and long-term requires an external intellectual community to provide material and motivation, like fuel and oxidizer. That private activity, in turn, sustains the community..."

I think a lot of the greatest art has been produced by this kind of "scene". Music for example isn't created only by an individual, it comes from listening and watching and playing with others. Later, you sit down and all of that input turns into something brand new.

I think at the same time I started getting "out of coding", I started getting deeper into music. And if it was just me, that would've been a short lived thing. But having people in real life to play with and bounce off makes it about 100x better and keeps you going long after you would've fallen off on your own.

I'd encourage anyone who feels this way to find something similar. The act of creation is still as essential as before, you just need to direct your energy toward something more purely human. Get into writing, drawing, woodworking... even as these things are instantly mass-producible, we'll still value and pay for humans to do them.

I think this has really softened the blow for me!

jkdufair 22 minutes ago||
This was my initial reaction as well. I have been thoroughly invested in the craft of software engineering for 3+ decades. From the blog posts mentioned in the all the way back to Byte magazine at the library as a 10 year old. But those days appear to be perhaps behind us now, as suggested in the article. I am grieving it, despite the fact I have embraced LLMs for creating software.

But I refuse to use LLMs for things like making music. I like your term "purely human". There's no place for fancy statistical engines in human art. Art belongs to human communities and human culture. Which is where, apparently, I will continue to find my refuge if not my living.

Karrot_Kream 12 minutes ago||
I am quite pro AI for various reasons, but for this reason I just don't see low effort AI art really taking off beyond memes, corporate promotional material, and porn. The value of art is the humanity behind it. It's the reason abstract modern painting continues to be valued despite many folks finding its absolute skill level to be lower than, say, the impressionists or modernists of yore.
apsurd 40 minutes ago||
I've been overhauling my parent's backyard. Mostly it's cleaning up decade's worth of clutter. From there there's regenerative visions for mulch, native plants, and intentional areas for humans. I'm learning a ton. What a great displacement for my creative energy with the added benefit of being physically demanding.

I'd add to your comment that AI is the thousand-ton cherry on top of the perfect storm. Covid destroyed our professional communities. Work doesn't and won't look like how it was pre-2020. AI just makes everything super weirder. It's hard, as a human, to cope.

mccoyb 1 hour ago||
There's several things I disagree with in this post (a matter of perspective, I think):

> The discourse around software engineering has gotten dumber. It’s like everyone in the industry lost 30 IQ points. People used to talk about compilers, type systems, logic. Now they talk about “prompts”, “harnesses”, “loops”. The discourse is narrower, shallower, and more repetitive. There’s only so many times I can hear about “agentic harnesses” before I lose my mind.

I agree with the frustration here :)

> You design a revolutionary new programming language: who cares? Maybe Claude cares, for what that’s worth. But humans don’t write or even read the code anymore. The programming language is an implementation detail the humans no longer have to care about.

Perhaps the people who weren't inclined to think about compilers, type systems, and logic before coding agents will never think about those things. If anything, I think about those systems significantly more now, because I view them as ways to describe the search space for the agent ... and perhaps, in the future, even tools to structure agentic latent representations.

So I propose rotating your viewport: yes, perhaps entertain the idea that it doesn't make sense to think about these things for human consumption ... but instead, what if we think of programming language and compiler design as being a tool to control the search space, and suddenly there's lots of new ways to think about these things.

Is this a valuable way to think? I'm not sure, but we should try and find out.

chicagobuss 57 minutes ago|
I agree with you and disagree with the OP in similar ways.

I work on my own "agentically-engineered" projects and the pursuit of certain ideas for what you're calling intrinsic motivation, and I don't particularly care if others find it interesting or even find it at all or not, because the ideas themselves are cool to me.

It's kind of like I can suddenly tinker at 2,000% efficiency and share what I'm doing, _and if someone else finds it interesting, that's cool too_

thoughtpeddler 24 minutes ago||
Isn’t the point you’re making what OP is saying - that there are of course some humans who have deep intrinsic motivation, and they’ll continue to do what they do, but most humans aren’t wired this way, and for that, society will collapse?
_dwt 1 hour ago||
Yes. I've told a few friends and acquaintances that somehow AI is the least interesting technology in my lifetime - the boosters use AI to write about how they used AI to build new tools to help them AI their AI, the haters write (or sometimes, shockingly, use AI to write) about how AI will AI all of us. Have you tried this new skill? Read my research paper, it shows that AI can do good work unsupervised? Oh, yeah, that's interesting, what do you think about how it did X, Y, and Z? I dunno man, I didn't spend that much time on it.

It's getting lonely out there, even if or especially if you've converged on "I don't care much about AI".

ragequittah 1 hour ago||
If it had no other function than a better than Google search engine that is able to teach me topics I'm interested in at exactly my speed it would be the most interesting technology to come along in a while. The fact that it does all the other stuff it's doing is hard to even come to grips with in the time it's been around.
Swizec 42 minutes ago|||
> even if or especially if you've converged on "I don't care much about AI"

I don't care much about AI but hot damn it makes working on the things I do care about easier.

We use it a lot at work (soft eng) and my job has slowly morphed into "Okay how do we continue shipping sane software when we effectively 10x'd our org size in six months as agents became reliable?". That has been pretty fun. I care about creating good software.

And I care about budgeting and finance projections for home finances, especially as a new baby entered the room. But I am very bad at spreadsheet fiddling. AI has been super helpful in doing the fiddling so I can focus on the thinking.

edit to add another example: I really care about managing my team and keeping us effective, but I hate playing ticket monkey. Offloading basic ticket management (agent, make me a ticket; take this thread and create 3 tickets; respond back when tickets are done; etc) to an agent has been great

infp_arborist 1 hour ago|||
It seems we (now more than ever) have to fight for fun, fight for a shared meaningful reality. Arriving again at the idea that enlightenment is a group activity.
chrisfosterelli 1 hour ago|||
I did my Masters in ML and a decade ago it seemed AI was so exciting. You could build relatively good models at home. Our university had a cluster that could train SOTA models. It seemed like every year we were discovering a breakthrough new neural net structure.

Nowadays all the development is done at a bigtech lab, and you aren't going to be able to tell anyone about it. Everyone else is relegated to interacting with slightly larger and larger LLMs over an API. On one hand it's cool that the tech is now far more accessible and impactful, but on the other AI has become immensely boring.

It's a little uncharitable take as I know some people are doing some cool innovative stuff still, and not every tech needs to be new forever anyway. I would feel less strongly if it wasn't impossible to not keep hearing about it :)

plastic-enjoyer 19 minutes ago||
I always thought the ML stuff was boring... Computational Neuroscience on the other hand ;)
sanderjd 1 hour ago||
I mean, to me, this is very similar to how it was when "the web" came into its current pervasive form. You could write exactly this comment about how people were writing about how they liked the web, on the web, and also about how they didn't like it, maybe shockingly, also on the web, etc. etc.

To me, this is just how it is when a new paradigm hits the scene. Whether it's good or bad, whether you care for it or not, it is pervasive.

arctic-true 37 minutes ago|||
The web was a shared experience, by its very nature. The interconnection was the point. LLMs allow anyone to put themselves in a one-man bubble of their own creation. In a way, it is the antithesis of the internet - if the web is a global public square, the API is a digital cloister.
layer8 47 minutes ago|||
But you could still focus on backend stuff and desktop or CLI programs, think and discuss about programming languages and software engineering on the code level in all the non-web related ways with a large community. You could opt-out of most of the web-related things (which is what I did) and still have a wide community to interact with. Whereas AI appears to be dissolving almost all that community. I hope that will turn out to be a false appearance, but the thesis is that it won’t.
simonebrunozzi 3 minutes ago||
How beautiful it is that the author gives a two-line summary of the post, right at the beginning:

> In this post, I argue that individual intellectual activity can only be sustained in an intellectual community of other humans. AI dissolves these communities, which in turn makes private intellectual activity rarer.

I know now that it will be joyful to read it all.

plourens 33 minutes ago||
"Private intellectual activity that is sustained, complex, and long-term requires an external intellectual community to provide material and motivation, like fuel and oxidizer."

Aside from programming, one of my main interests is reading and writing. I think that literary fiction proves what the author is saying above. Even the most reclusive, private authors (Thomas Pynchon, Cormac McCarthy, etc.) actually published their work. They contributed to the community and took part as readers. Literature is always in conversation with itself. And although literary fiction may seem not to have the sway it once did in society, it is flourishing among the people who care about it (like me).

My thoughts aren't fully formed, but I find it interesting to situate technical pursuits like software engineering with humanities. And anyway, I've always felt that programming is both a science and art.

ChickeNES 27 minutes ago|
Kafka didn’t publish his work, and I’d expect that he’s just one we happen to know about, others are likely lost to time.
plourens 6 minutes ago|||
Indeed there are people who don't contribute to the community. Or maybe they can't find a publisher. I'm sure there are brilliant things written which will never find an audience.

But the broader point, in agreement with the article, is that the existence of fiction depends in part on extrinsic motivation (e.g. publishing, finding readers) and a community of intellectuals engaging with one another through their work. If everyone decided to stop seeking readers all of a sudden, the field would die and become a museum (mausoleum?) of former thinkers.

asphodele 10 minutes ago|||
Kafka did publish some of his work during his lifetime, including The Metamorphosis.
armcat 55 minutes ago||
This really speaks to me, and Terence Tao literally wrote something very similar few days ago [1] where he advocates for a more holistic approach to intellectual fields, and the value of community building.

On a personal level I had so many to-dos, like learning Rust "properly", but I feel incredibly demotivated now, because I can just get Opus or Sol to do it. But maybe I just need to block out one day a week to be my "no AI day", and just do it.

[1] https://mathstodon.xyz/@tao/117395269325940185

NiloCK 21 minutes ago||
Beautiful article. I am here to pick a nit and restate something that I've blabbed about here and elsewhere a few times before.

> Prompting is not a skill, at least, it’s a much shallower skill than software engineering. The instrumental dimension of the work has improved in that people can get more output per unit of effort, but the dimension of work that’s about building up human capital has collapsed.

I think that this is incorrect in a specific literal sense, but not in any way that changes the broader effect.

I think that "prompting" is in fact a deep skill, but not one that practically anyone has cultivated to any reasonable degree, for the simple reason that the tools change faster than anyone grip can acclimate to them.

Nobody on earth mastered the effective co-working with Sonnet 3.5. That model was a lightswitch moment for me personally. I built an agentic harness for it to convert a medium-large vue-class-component framework into vue-3's composition API, rescuing a personal project from certain doom of software rot.

I can say that I got a lot out of that model and that my own usage was (if I can say so) ahead of the curve. But with hindsight, I know that I barely scratched the surface of what it was capable of. Have I continued to hone my Sonnet 3.5 harness? Of course not. I have started over (or at least reset many assumptions) a dozen times since then. Even if I were so inclined - in the way that I am inclined to learn Chopin's Nocturnes - the model is now unavailable.

The ship has sailed.

So to the OP's point - it's not so much that skilled usage has disappeared, but that skills are self-obsoleting faster than any real degree of mastery can set in. And as an immediate consequence, the churn is too quick for anything resembling a relationship of apprenticeship. This is effectively a cultural singularity where, yes, we are each of us drifting much more alone.

arjie 21 minutes ago|
> ...write blog posts to share ideas or inspire other people,...

Yeah, this is still there. I get a lot from other people's posts. VictorTaelin's memory system was pretty cool and I implemented a variant of it https://x.com/VictorTaelin/status/2081453432318132603?s=20

I write down what I learn mostly as a note to myself https://wiki.roshangeorge.dev/w/Blog/2026-10-03/AI_Updates

It's all fine. The world is just as good as it was before but we can do more. And Taelin's technique is pretty cool. It's just that some large amount of ideas I'd learned are now not unique and some new ideas are coming to exist.

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