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Posted by 1potato 1 day ago

The RAM shortage is bringing back DDR4(www.theverge.com)
262 points | 272 commentspage 2
kmike84 7 hours ago|
It’s making ddr3 relevant again as well. Bought 256GB DDR3 ECC for ~200 usd a couple weeks ago for my ai server (wip).

These old workstation platforms seem to be perfectly fine for hosting GPUs for local llms.

Eisenstein 7 hours ago|
256GB means you are going to be using system RAM instead of completely offloading to GPU, I assume? If so, you should make sure your CPU has AVX2.
kmike84 3 hours ago|||
I think it'd be mostly for engrams. It seems LLMs are moving in this direction, with 50GB in qwen 3.8 flash, and 200GB in deepseek 4.1 flash.

My $20 xeons 2696v2 and 2670 are tool old for real offloading, and sata ssd drives are likely a bit slow for ssd streaming :)

tomega2134 3 hours ago|||
"hosting GPUs for local llms" meaning pci-express bandwidth and memory bandwidth are not issues for them, and CPU features probably also don't make a difference.
hn_submit 9 hours ago||
The biggest advantage is that the older technology can also produced by Chinese manufacturers like CXMT. They're ramping up production to claim a sizeable portion of the market.
adrian_b 5 hours ago|
They are already able to produce state-of-the-art DRAM, not only old DDR4 or slower DDR5, but they have difficulties to ramp up production for such DRAM, for not being able to buy adequate equipment due to the US "sanctions".
hn_submit 4 hours ago||
For consumer use DDR4 is fine and price is the real obstacle as is availability. So if they can ramp up DDR4 production that would be far more useful than limited quantities of DDR5.
happyPersonR 3 hours ago||
lol give it a year … now that the datacenter buildout is stalled out because of electricity and ddr6 is being rolled out in China, I bet this looks different in a year.

CXMT is planning expansion for the ram capacity, they’ll do that faster than the west, I beleive they said end of year ish? (Could be wrong).

once it comes online and they increase their yields, this whole thing changes.

Also new datacenters mean increased supply so cheaper tokens now that parameter size is a non-sequitor.

I’m legit curious how long China holds back… but I doubt it’ll be long.

moffkalast 2 hours ago|
CXMT is not part of the cartel that is probably once again coordinating to keep prices high for as long as possible, so we'll hopefully get some actual competition soon.
happyPersonR 57 minutes ago||
I can’t blame them for making back their costs for any manufacturing and maybe a little extra for profit selling at the current rate. Let’s see what they do though :)

Could totally be one of those situations where the current cartel outsource all their production for MoW outside the US to them and then just pocket the investment money lol

However … without the US datacenter buildout ramping continuously … the ram will eventually make its way from warehouses to the market lol. We really need a way to use server dram in consumer boards… but idk if that will happen.

Although it would take a ton of engineering and probably a new chip … a custom motherboard would that did that would be legit haha :) would solve a lot of issues.

dnlgrmm 11 hours ago||
https://archive.is/yrGeb
veltas 13 hours ago||
Fact is that performance intensive code, games or whatever, has always optimised locality and so RAM speed shouldn't usually be a 1:1 impact on performance. Using older generations of slower RAM will be acceptable for many games and workloads.
sva_ 6 hours ago||
I was eyeing a 96GB ddr5 so-dimm upgrade for my laptop last year, it was about 200-250 euro at the time. The only offerings I find for it now are in the range of 2000 euro. Regretting that I didn't max out ssd/ram at the time, but I'm optimistic the situation will get better in a year or so.
mrob 7 hours ago||
I'm posting from a machine with 8GiB of DDR3-1333. The modern web is slow, but I avoid the modern web as much as possible anyway. The software I actually enjoy using is mostly fast enough. Swap on zram (LZ4 compression, vm.page-cluster = 0, earlyoom userspace OOM killer, no disk swap) makes it feel like 9GiB with no perceptible downside.
cainxinth 8 hours ago||
Don’t call it a comeback, I’ve been here for years!
uzerkayat 15 hours ago||
I think in upcoming days everything gonna be making comeback previously like one or two years ago I was thinking the mobile price are so dropped that mobile phones gonna be like as cheap as possible but now after the AI their price are going as high as possible and same with the computers and laptops and all.
gblargg 13 hours ago||
Maybe more efficient code will make a comeback.
Ekaros 6 hours ago|||
How many prompts include "make it as efficient as possible"? Or will efficiency clash with shipping as many features as possible(not even humanly anymore).
as1mov 12 hours ago|||
I have bridge to sell you if you think that is likely.
ahartmetz 12 hours ago||
If the trend to disregard performance with ever-increasing CPU power had not stopped, C++ and Rust wouldn't be as popular as they are. Something did change with the end of the free lunch.
as1mov 11 hours ago|||
What will change is more and more software will be moved over to a cloud based subscription model with the end user device just being a crippled thin client.

And I can already see the shitwank bean counters salivating over this prospect. Imagine the possibilities, we can stuff as much DRM as we want, charge as much as possible monthly, arbitrarily restrict the terms of usage in the future. What will the user do? Run the same heavy duty software on their Intel N150 + 4GB RAM shitbox? Blah.

CuriousRose 6 hours ago||
I mean you could always vibe code a replacement in 30 minutes. Thankfully I don’t see DRM being a problem when you can’t DRM an idea. They will try, but how is that going for the games industry currently?
mitxela 11 hours ago|||
They are popular among a certain hobbyist community, just as they were in 2024. They are not popular among application developers. Remember how FAANG app developers keep bumping into platform limits, such as the old Android limit of 65k classes in an app, and necessitating workarounds?
dr_kiszonka 14 hours ago|||
We can get refurbished phones with 8 GB LPDDR5 for less than regular DDR5 modules.

LPDDR5 is slower but maybe a small cluster could be useful?

flanked-evergl 14 hours ago|||
The wages of the West's deliberate deindustrialization and deliberate dependence on Asian manufacturing.

30 refineries were closed in Europe in the past 15 years about, and that is just a small example of a pathological situation.

hdgvhicv 13 hours ago|||
I was reading that oil from the Middle East had to go to South Korea to be refined before being shipped as diesel to Australia.

Cost of hiring an oil tanker has ballooned massively (like 40 fold) since America decided to bomb its supply chain, so these long supply chains are massively expensive.

The Republican Party has decided that running a world of global free trade was no longer desired. America wont pay the price for another decade or two, but it will.

flanked-evergl 4 hours ago||
Europeans can lament the choices the Americans made all day, but Europeans deliberately chose over dependency on the Americans, Chinese and Russians.

Europe can easily be more dominant than the Americans if we chose it.

fennecbutt 13 hours ago|||
Well capitalism is responsible for that.

I think in a few hundred years we'll have learnt what a disgusting, poisonous system it is.

lproven 12 hours ago|||
I think in a few hundred years the very small number of survivors of humanity will be living in caves and huts in the high Arctic and in a greening slowly-reafforesting Antarctic, they'll be hunter-gatherers with maybe some simple small-scale unmechanised agriculture, and they won't have money. Maybe a barter system for a few.

Among the many other things they won't have is an economic model.

flanked-evergl 11 hours ago|||
Europeans and Americans choose to make things unsustainable and unprofitable to do in Europe, and chose to make it possible to import things cheaply from places like China and India who use slave labour and destroy the environment … and then blame Capitalism.

As you like … but blaming capitalism is not going to bring industry back, and it won't stop China from using slave labour or India from using their rivers as landfills.

hypfer 15 hours ago||
I mean arguably, this is good.

The amount of waste produced due to phones not receiving new batteries and software updates was utterly insane, given what goes into making them.

adrithmetiqa 14 hours ago|||
100% agree. This is generally a good news story. The e-waste issue is one of the darker aspects of tech which is mostly ignored. We should promote brands like Fairphone and Framework that are trying to make a difference here. Reuse more of your kit!
user_7832 13 hours ago|||
It's good if you're a tech guy in silicon valley with a good salary who used to upgrade every year to the latest pro max.

It's terrible if you're a labourer in India who buys phones under 10k INR (~100 USD) when your salary is 20k INR per month.

Unfortunately there are way more in the latter category than the former, and most of them won't know what ram is. They'll just be paying more and getting less going forward for a few years.

(Source, the salaries and phones I've seen of the staff at office. And we're in a major region you've likely heard of, not some tiny rural village.)

donmb 14 hours ago|
I recently reactivated a 10 years old Kindle as an AI-Story-Generator (https://github.com/donmb1/ai-story-generator). Old hardware is valueable and with AI you can do great things with it.
hypfer 14 hours ago||
So LLMs are simultaneously making new hardware unaffordable, while also making old hardware usable again.

That too sounds like an actually good development all things considered. For the planet, anyway. And with the big caveat of that cloud tether, though just for scaffolding.

WindyMiller 14 hours ago|||
Old e-readers were already usable. Generating extruded story-like product on them when they're already perfectly capable of displaying the vast majority of human literature doesn't make them any more usable.
MrDrMcCoy 7 hours ago||
Rather, the LLMs will make the OS on those old e-readers much more maintainable.
downrightmike 1 hour ago||||
Produce rots in the fields because there was no way to get a profit from it
dawnerd 8 hours ago||||
Also making old hardware unaffordable too.
OtomotO 14 hours ago|||
> That too sounds like an actually good development all things considered

It would be good if we would use less resources.

But we are not.

It's just that some people don't get the newer resources.

rwyinuse 14 hours ago|||
Thanks for sharing, maybe it's time to buy some more old Kindles... I use bunch as smart paintings (with changing pictures generated locally with stable diffusion), and of course Home Assistant dashboard. They are awesome little machines.
dgellow 13 hours ago||
Look at CrowPanel, you can get nice e-ink devices made for development, at a reasonable price. I have a small 2.13in esp32 board, I spent some time yesterday making it into a pocket flashcard device for my German courses. The energy consumption is minimal, small form factor, easy to flash via esptool or arduino utils
rwyinuse 11 hours ago||
Thanks for the tip, I've seen those small e-ink display on sale in Aliexpress, but wasn't sure about their quality. Maybe I'll get one for my next project, I can see many use cases.
dgellow 10 hours ago||
I didn’t notice any quality issue. And the crowpanel docs and demo repos make it simple to quickly get results. Though I had troubles getting macOS to establish a serial connection, no problem under Linux and windows
hasbot 9 hours ago|||
This is interesting. Maybe add a couple examples of generated stories.
simonklitj 13 hours ago|||
Please. There are so many human stories out there—read those.
PunchyHamster 12 hours ago|||
unlesss it's for children, just read books.

and if it is for your child, read them books.

mitxela 11 hours ago||
Please don't raise your kids on AI slop. They'll grow up without knowing anything else.
RunSet 11 hours ago||
https://archive.org/details/Infinity_v01n04_1956-08/page/n25...
CamperBob2 5 hours ago||
It's a shame this story isn't better known. I was lucky enough to read it in grade school, just before the first usable 8-bit computers came out.
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