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Posted by royfish 1 day ago

Fingerprints are the new cookies(royfish.dev)
702 points | 340 commentspage 5
crote 1 day ago|
This is already illegal in the EU. The consent banners were never about cookies, they have always been about the tracking itself!

Same thing the other way: no need to have a banner for a simple login cookie which isn't being used for privacy-invading tracking purposes.

cromka 1 day ago||
Yet I am constantly flagged by various pages because Cloudflare decided I had some bot running at some point on my network. And my IP is fixed. Whatever EU is doing, it doesn't work.
Gigachad 1 day ago|||
You might have a residential proxy running somewhere on the network. The latest in botnets is bundling a proxy in with some TV torrent streaming app or whatever else that can run in the background and proxy malicious traffic from your residential IP. Services like cloudflare and crowdsec will keep a constantly updating list of the IP addresses that are actively sending bot traffic and blacklist them. If you can work out where the traffic is coming from and shut it down you should have this issue go away.
snailmailman 23 hours ago|||
I have a similar issue. I see cloudflare checkboxes all the time. Google makes me fill out captchas all the time. Sometimes it decides I can’t search, sometimes cloudflare doesnt let me past the checkbox.

I’ve checked my network. I’ve monitored egress traffic. There is no residential proxy. I’m not on a VPN. If anything, services should be able to track me entirely by my home IP that doesn’t change that often.

My best guess is that I’ve committed the crime of not allowing third party cookies? Or maybe the crime of not being logged into a Google account 24/7. It’s not browser or device specific. My iPhone is just as likely to fail the cloudflare checkbox as my desktop with Firefox + uBlock.

IG_Semmelweiss 23 hours ago||
I've committed the extreme crime of running no JS and clean cache of cookies. Plus, something as simple as containerizing work/play/research reading, into different browsers, has provoked the Eye of Google to be cast on me

I haven't seen a YT ad in years while in lurk-only mode (no login), which is nice, but I also see cloudflare everywhere , which is not great.

One of the nicer things about LLMs, is that they arrived just in time to erase my dependency in search.

cromka 16 hours ago|||
I don't. I had a RSS software that was polling a local auctions website (Allegro) once an hour and that's it.

This should be absolutely illegal, one entity is capable of making my life extra difficult and there's no one to appeal to.

nilslindemann 23 hours ago||||
I have experienced the same with Google and with PayPal, whenever I used Tor. When I afterwards visited those sites using my normal browser I got Captchas. They are actively fighting attempts to avoid fingerprinting. Also, I am pretty sure that no browser protects against getting fingerprinted. Test with https://fingerprint.com/.
cromka 16 hours ago||
Oh. PayPal is super interesting because they outfight ban me! But I can change a browser and it works just fine.
nilslindemann 5 hours ago||
Yes, PayPal has blacklists and people land on them very quickly. I play according to their rules, as I need the service when I need something which is not available on Amazon (Which has IBAN).
cowlevel 1 day ago||||
Have you got a TV? Or a car?
throawayonthe 1 day ago|||
if your IP is fixed, surely no further fingerprinting is necessary?
cromka 16 hours ago|||
They don't know that and don't rely on that. That's why fingerprinting exists. They ban only my one browser, that's it.
tobwen 23 hours ago|||
Static IPs completely destroy privacy when not being shared with many users. Our university has one outgoing static IP for hundreds of users :)
buzer 1 day ago|||
> they have always been about the tracking itself!

Actually they are about reading from or writing to terminal equipment of user that is not done for "sole purpose of carrying out the transmission of a communication over an electronic communications network" or "strictly necessary in order for the provider of an information society service explicitly requested by the subscriber or user to provide the service". Some safety-related exceptions are possible via ePD Article 15, but those need to be separately added to the local law. That's why things like functional cookies require consent as well.

Of course there is also the GDPR layer on top of this.

zejn 18 hours ago|||
Yep, and somehow there's always someone who thinks that the "Ah, but this is not a cookie!" is a loophole. It is not, he is just undereducated.

The fingerprinting comes from enumerating properties of the terminal equipment and their values, and to do that you have to read them, for which you need the explicit consent. (Except in some rare cases, but if you are that case, your workplace will also have a legal department.)

Additionally, as you said, GDPR adds a lot of additional restrictions, with provisions regarding creating profiles of persons (what is commonly refered as tracking).

lesuorac 22 hours ago||||
Eh reads like a “civil war was about states rights not slavery” argument.

The thing the site is doing that isn’t “strictly necessary” is always tracking.

buzer 21 hours ago|||
Point is that tracking isn't the only thing that's not "strictly necessary". And additionally that "strictly necessary" is tied to something specific: internet society service. That includes a very specific requirement: "Normally provided for remuneration". That's why e.g. public authorities should not (usually) be allowed to rely on it, public services are not often provided for remuneration in EU-law sense.

It also limits the exception in relation to e.g. employment.

what 21 hours ago|||
Well now the thing that isn’t “strictly necessary” and they’re not allowed to do is remember my no cookie preference.
troupo 19 hours ago||
It's not a preference. It literally is the default requirement.
stavrop 17 hours ago|||
Right, and that wording is why fingerprinting doesn't get around it. The EDPB's Guidelines 2/2023 on the technical scope of Art. 5(3) (final version adopted October 2024) say that when a site's JavaScript instructs the browser to send information back, that is "gaining access" just like reading a cookie (paras 32-34). WP29 had already said in Opinion 9/2014 that device fingerprinting is in scope.

So a canvas/font/WebGL fingerprint used for tracking needs the same consent as a tracking cookie. The guidelines even suggest passively collected protocol signals can fall under it (para 43), though that's where it gets argued.

The weak point is enforcement. A cookie shows up in devtools and in every cookie-scanner audit. A fingerprinting script looks like any other analytics JS, so it's much harder for a DPA to spot and prove.

what 21 hours ago|||
Yet you can’t set a cookie to remember the preference of opting out.
troupo 19 hours ago||
It's not a preference. It literally is the default requirement.
iririririr 7 hours ago||
cloudflare (the cdn monopoly) interpretation of gdpr, is that clicking the "I'm not a bot" you are giving consent to fingerprint because they have to provide you a service you asked by clicking the button.

...it's something i hope no court will uphold. but we know what happens to european courts even looking sideways at American monopolies working as front for fiveeyes.

imo, eff should be starting trials to stress this instead of blogposts.

troupo 19 hours ago||
They are not "new cookies". Fingerprinting has been a thing for close to 20 years now.

The whole cookies discussion is a successful diversion by the ads industry. It was never about cookies.

royfish 1 hour ago|
Right. What has changed about fingerprinting though is that since last year Google allows it in their ad products. And, unlike cookies, you can't just delete your fingerprint. The average internet user hasn't even heard about it, so we need to be vocal about it.
torutofu 11 hours ago||
the scary part is how little of this needs a third-party script anymore
drdrek 10 hours ago||
opening in a different browser resulted in a different name
ekjhgkejhgk 7 hours ago||
Mullvad browser. It's Tor browser minus connection to Tor.
MathMonkeyMan 23 hours ago||
I was the Gentle Owl. Then I connected to a VPN, opened a private window in the same browser, and didn't maximize the window. Now I'm the Nosy Toucan.

The article's points still stand, but the trick didn't work this one time.

Guvante 23 hours ago|
Private window is called out in the article as creating a second entity
aaroninsf 7 hours ago||
Relevant: https://mlfa.org/how-government-surveillance-and-big-tech-er...
exabrial 11 hours ago||
I can't wait for the new EU law for more useless fkin popups
ketzu 10 hours ago|
Fingerprinting based tracking is already covered by gdpr.

Fingerprinting itself is also not new.

jbverschoor 5 hours ago||
The regulation is not about cookies. It’s about tracking.

The whole cookie thing has always been bs

gxs 8 hours ago|
These are all a joke anyway

If you've ever worked at a startup, you're probably familiar with the fact that no one gives a crap about this type of stuff early on

The hell with pretty much anything, the only thing that matters is revenue

People only start to care about this after the fact if you've grown to large enough size

If you think stuff like this or right to be deleted stuff is moving the needle anywhere but at the biggest companies, you've been misled

That's the real painful truth of this stuff, most of the time it's just lip service anyway

Wth is anyone going to do anyway? Go through a resource-draining lawsuit against a 20 person company where it will take a year of discovery just to maybe-sort-of prove they've been mishandling your data?

It's going to take some pretty radical new laws for this type of stuff to ever have any meaningful impact

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