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Posted by scrlk 11 hours ago

Citroen revives the 2CV for an electric age(www.bbc.com)
234 points | 275 commentspage 3
theplumber 9 hours ago|
I think the issue with all these cars is that they are not cheap enough. You get “half” of car while the Chinese provide you a “proper” car for the same price.
GuB-42 9 hours ago||
Not a big fan of the trend of making all these small electric cars while at the same time dropping the entire A-segment, which, for Citroen, would be the C1.

The problem is that these electric cars have terrible range, because of the small battery, making them almost exclusively city cars. A-segment gas cars are also marketed as city cars, but they can also do long trips just fine. Not the most comfortable, and you are not taking your entire house with you, but you will get there, at highway speeds, just like with any other car. And with good fuel economy too. Perfect for those who want an affordable car, don't drive much, but may take the occasional road trip. By comparison, that 2CV is mostly designed as a second car (in addition to being a fashion statement), when you already have a big car for long trips (or get rental/public transport instead).

And for manufacturers, I think "affordable" is the problem here, A-segment cars are low margin, but not cheaper to design than more upscale models, especially now with all the safety and environmental regulations, so the market is not really worth it.

cnity 7 hours ago|
Eh, you're just being pushed out into hatchbacks instead. I can hardly think of a scenario where I'd want an A-segment car instead of a small hatchback (e.g. VW Polo or Ford Fiesta) anyway. Obviously, that's just my opinion.
GuB-42 6 hours ago||
The obvious reason is that small hatchbacks (B-segment) are more expensive, both in terms of purchase price and in terms of running costs. And that's my point. Manufacturers don't want to make cars that cost almost as much to produce, but are sold for cheaper.

Also, it is easier to park these small cars, but really, what effectively happened is that manufacturers removed the cheap option on gas cars and claim that the replacement is an EV. It isn't, the A-segment was a cheap, city-optimized, single car option, these small EVs are also cheap (for EVs), but city-exclusive, second car options.

agumonkey 4 hours ago||
I find the 2020s interpretations of vintage cars very much off personally. It's too simplistic in shape, toy like. But well that's a general trend.

Now cat manufacturers are really trying to bring good price to capabilities ratio. Kudos to that.

underlipton 1 hour ago||
Aw, it's smiling! :3

(Before anyone says anything, the face that the consumer-friendly vehicle has an endearing "face" is salient.)

gpas 4 hours ago||
It seems they are listening to potential buyers' wishes. Since the first evs appeared in the market, everyone wanted technologically upgraded classic models.
vlovich123 8 hours ago||
Are the Chinese cars somehow really doing manufacturing more efficiently or is it a flooding of the market to capture the market and drive out encumbants (whether government subsidized or otherwise)?

I just don’t understand how the Chinese are making cars at half the price or more since afaik they also manufacture them in China and ship rather than build locally.

GoToRO 8 hours ago||
I worked in the industry. It would have been really hard for China not to do better. Like really hard. They allocated 2 years, 150 people for a device that already existed but needed to be adapted to a different customer. It took 2.5 years. No improvements added. Every single manager in those companies is very political, no skills, technical or otherwise. So if chinese hired 20 competent people, gave them training on the industry's specific tools, they are already ahead.
PorciiVorbesc 5 hours ago||
>I worked in the industry. It would have been really hard for China not to do better.

Same. Major German car company I used to work for was so incompetent, slow and inefficient that it was inevitable they'd get shown off by Chinese cars, since Tesla did it before so it was a matter of time.

HarHarVeryFunny 4 hours ago||
But even Teslas are 2-3x the price of equivalent Chinese EVs.

Apparently a Tesla model 3 has about 10-15 hours of human labor in it, so higher wages can't even begin to explain the price difference.

PorciiVorbesc 3 hours ago||
>But even Tesla's are 2-3x the price of equivalent Chinese EVs.

Well Tesla want to turn a nice profit.

Chinese EVs are sold on thin margins to capture marketshare.

amelius 8 hours ago|||
They have dark factories ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCBdcNA_FsI

justsomehnguy 8 hours ago||
Look at the population of your country. Look at the population of China.
PorciiVorbesc 5 hours ago||
What argument is this? We're talking about advanced industry, not building pyramids, where having more slave labor gets you to win. India has an even bigger population yet their car industry isn't remotely as advanced.

Switzerland is a small country but has some of the most advanced manufacturing in the world.

justsomehnguy 31 minutes ago||
'Economies of scale'.

S. can have all the 'advanced manufacturing' in the world but there is only ~250k new car sales a year. Compare to 34M in China it's 250k+ sales a month.

MisterMunchkin 7 hours ago||
Having a roll-up fabric roof doesn't seem very practical. I don't really want a car that's going to fill with water. All the potential gaps, having to roll up a soggy, bird-shit-covered roof. It just doesn't seem like a great idea.
aucisson_masque 1 hour ago||
Everyone love it, I just want to remind people it’s a concept car !!!

Design of the actual car that will go on production is not even done.

We have seen hundreds of nice concept car that lead to nothing or disaster.

Also the 2cv was great because it was cheap, reliable and easy to repair. Good luck with these electric car, it certainly won’t be ‘farmer favorite’.

gmac 1 hour ago|
I don’t love it. The new Renaults I like, and the old 2CV I’m also fond of, but this concept 2CV just looks like a clown car to me. The front is far _too_ face-like, with a big ugly rounded Citroen-badge nose.
NietTim 5 hours ago||
Renault with the revival of the V / 5 and now this, French car brands have been producing THE best designs of all electric cars, in my opinion
sl-1 10 hours ago|
I hope they succeed, but probably will fail with too complex design. Original 2cv is wonderfully simple. If they can keep that simplicity, they will win.
mrweasel 4 hours ago|
The concept art looks wonderfully playful, but it won't ever ship like that. Take the seats for example, they have no headrest. Safety standard will not allow the car to ship like that. I don't suggest that this is a bad thing, but the "correct" solution would be to design custom seat that fit the style, but that's not a financially sane solution. So the 2CV will, if it's build, have standard Citroen seats, losing fun and appealing bench seat in the front.
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