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Posted by acossta 9 hours ago

A Dynamic and Distributed Virtual GPU Cloud Built on Idle Apple Silicon Devices(machinelearning.apple.com)
205 points | 90 comments
yardie 5 hours ago|
If you've been around Macs long enough this is very much in Apple's wheelhouse. They already do something similar with Final Cut Pro rendering, Logic Pro, Grand Central Dispatch, and XCode distributed CI/CD. Apple HQ is probably sitting on 1000s of nodes, high powered MBPs, iMacs, that could do lots of inference work overnight.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Central_Dispatch

[1] https://developer.apple.com/documentation/dispatch

nsagent 5 hours ago|
Reminds me of Incredibuild.
pjmlp 4 hours ago|||
Available by default on Visual Studio, just as info.
javiramos 2 hours ago|||
and Folding@home
sdoering 8 hours ago||
Pardon me not understanding what this is about?

Basically SETI for AI workloads? At least, this is the impression the landingpage left me with.

I am a bit lost, tbh.

railka 8 hours ago|
Minions is an internal enterprise system already in use at Apple. It pools idle Mac GPUs into a shared compute cluster for ML inference.

There is no distributed execution of a single LLM across multiple GPUs using tensor parallelism here. Instead, it relies on task-level parallelism-breaking down a large workload into independent subtasks that run across separate machines. For example, generating embeddings for a million documents.

dekhn 3 hours ago|||
This pattern has been implemented across hundreds if not thousands of different organizations (and between organizations). I have a patent on data distribution strategies from my time at Google running a large (>1M cores 24/7 for 3 years) idle cycle harvesting project.

it's a good idea but you often end up with huge tail latencies, slight incompatibilities due to fleet heterogeneity, and a database/scheduler management problem.

greggsy 6 hours ago||||
My university ran its render farm across idle workstations using the screensaver back in early 2000. Same concept.
juliendorra 4 hours ago||||
And Apple has had simple distributed video encoding since 2005, so yes it is not new in computing, but it is still useful for the gap before a given task can fit comfortably on one machine
pjmlp 4 hours ago|||
Psst, it is "innovative". /s
gizajob 4 hours ago||
It is if it’s GPU compute.
pjmlp 4 hours ago||
Distributed GPU compute has existed for quite some time,

https://developer.nvidia.com/gpudirect

And this is because I can't be bothered to dive into older papers, so recent NVIDIA stuff will do.

alt227 7 hours ago|||
So basically works the same way as Folding@Home?
rafaelmn 7 hours ago|||
Embedding@Work
cr125rider 7 hours ago||
HotBackpack@Commute
1e1a 6 hours ago||
DeadBattery@Work
rramon 7 hours ago||||
Only on the same local network I guess.
coob 6 hours ago|||
or distributed.net
tom1337 8 hours ago||
I guess for companies this can be nice? Run some inference in the off-hours on the machines that you already have. Could be useful for analytical tasks that don't require to be instant. On the technical side this doesn't seem that groundbreaking for me though.
mcculley 6 hours ago||
As with all similar SETI@home approaches, this paper does not address the energy cost.

Yes, we can distribute tasks to idle machines in homes and on office desktops, but it is often much more expensive than sending it to a data center where power is cheaper and the hardware is more efficient.

buildbot 5 hours ago||
We did a little demo/have a patent for a similar idea using idle GPUs on Mercedes vehicles once upon a time - https://patents.google.com/patent/US20230281046A1/en
pm90 8 hours ago||
My warm take is that Apple is leaving a lot of money on the table by not investing in creating an independent supply chain for their chips and building their own cloud. They arguably had the first mover advantage when it came to general purpose arm compute; all they had to do was flood the market and make it easy for anyone to rent it. Not only would they corner a part of the market but perhaps ease demand pressure on other chip manufacturers too.
sigmoid10 8 hours ago||
Apart from straight up buying TSMC's or Samsung's fabs I don't see a way of building a vertically integrated high-end chip supply chain for Apple. At least not on timeframes measured below a decade. And on those time frames the current supply issues will probably be resolved by companies who put all their effort into it instead of just tweaking their bottom line.
alt227 7 hours ago||
TBH Im surprised they havent already bought one of these companies.
ecshafer 7 hours ago|||
There is zero chance Taiwan or South Korea would allow this. It would be blocked on National Security grounds for each respective company/country.
jacquesm 6 hours ago||
It might actually serve as an insurance policy of sorts.
nxobject 1 hour ago|||
I actually see the logic there: Apple as a “harmless consumer device company” is probably one will remain very geographically diversified in the long run, between the China and America markets.

(Interestingly enough, I think PRC and ROC are combined in public financials.)

lostmsu 4 hours ago|||
Does not seem to be helping AWS data centers in Middle East.
reachableceo 1 hour ago||||
Why would they want that on their balance sheet?

Also they have the ability to put in sufficiently large amount purchase orders to buy up whatever capacity they want.

Even at ludicrous markup prices from TSMC, ifs going to be orders of magnitude cheaper than in house a fab.

bel8 7 hours ago||||
I don't think they would be able to buy any of these. It would have been blocked by multiple regulators.
macintux 7 hours ago||||
They've had a great deal of success playing them off against each other.
r_lee 7 hours ago|||
because their entire thing is to focus on a few product lines... I'm not surprised at all
nxobject 1 hour ago|||
At this point, I’m sure bankrolls a significant amount of R&D in new MSes and build-out capital, in return for guaranteed capacity on the first production lines. I’m not sure the extra juice of outright ownership is worth the squeeze.

(As much as conglomerates are fun…)

kolinko 7 hours ago|||
My guess is that they have challenges scaling the production anyway (6-16 weeks wait time for Studios), and also they would leave money in the table if they just released chips. I would assume that once they scale the production they will get back to the server game - MacOS server racks, or something more inventive like MacOS supercomputers running on a ton of prev gen chips ;)
pjmlp 7 hours ago|||
They don't get enterprise, A/UX, mkLinux, OS X Server, Mac Pro tower, all gone now.

Swift's main reason to go open source and have good Linux support was naturally for app developers to be able to use it on server side, which naturally wasn't going to be macOS.

I macOS wasn't required for developing iDevices apps, they would surely sell even less desktops.

nxobject 29 minutes ago||
If anything, Apple has every incentive to hop on the Linux Foundation train like MS. Just for containers, of course ;)
yohannparis 7 hours ago|||
My guess is that it's already hard for them to get as many chips fabricated for their devices, which is still their main source of income so far.

Maybe their chip team is already on the work, or already made, a server chip for AI purposes used internally, and doesn't have to talk about it yet.

alt227 7 hours ago||
https://appleinsider.com/articles/26/08/24/this-is-the-first...
curt15 4 hours ago||
They'd be left maintaining their own macos server again while everyone else uses Linux for their server farms.
luizfelberti 1 hour ago||
This reminds me of this blog post[0] where they intercept calls to the CUDA API from one host to execute them in a separate host, essentially giving GPUs to VMs that have none, and allowing one GPU to serve multiple instances.

[0]: https://loopholelabs.io/blog/ollama-remote-gpu

lynndotpy 7 hours ago||
It would be so incredibly cool if we finally had an accessible consumer-accessible way to turn a network of computers on a network into a supercomputer. A household has a child who gets into 3D artwork and wants to render something? People can opt their tablets, phones, laptops, whatever to crunch out some frames overnight while not being used.
willquack 6 hours ago||
There is a startup working on this called Distributive I used to work for - their compute nodes are based on js/wasm runtimes so you just need a web browser to turn a device into a compute node...
reachableceo 1 hour ago||
Didn’t someone make a k8s worker in JavaScript a few months back?
chasil 4 hours ago|||
I'm not comfortable giving away time and power consumption on a machine that I own.

I would definitely opt out.

Is Apple going to compensate the owners?

bee_rider 3 hours ago||
Maybe users could generate compute credits by taking tasks, and cash them in by submitting them.
botanrice 7 hours ago||
until you get a teen obsessed with 3d rendering then they're up all night finding a way to convert manga into 3d scenes and your old laptop is running 100% cpu trying to keep up. xDD
lynndotpy 7 hours ago||
The idealized version of this in my mind has a consent-first interface which makes it easy to set boundaries and limits and wouldn't burn out the machine as a default
twosdai 5 hours ago||
This is basically what seti and the computing @home projects did. Just doesn't get as much support outside of hobbiest and institutions.
lynndotpy 5 hours ago||
Yes! I remember it being a bit difficult and confusing to set up when I was 10 or so. And of course, you can't use it on e.g. your gaming consoles or phones, and AFAIK you can't set up BOINC for personal use (e.g. rendering your own blender projects on all your machines). (That said, Blender itself does provide good tooling here for Blender specifically).
brandonpelfrey 7 hours ago||
I don't get it. In the paper it sounds like it's "just" a CRUD DB, then you have some fleet of Macs, and they store inputs and outputs in S3. What's the innovation here? Not trying to poo on this, but it looked like the most basic and obvious approach.
Bric3d 8 hours ago|
They'll throw this together but still not sell you something you can stick in a rack ?
Telemakhos 8 hours ago|
That seems to be the point: you leverage existing workstations on your corporate network and run compute batches at night while they're idle. You don't have to buy any extra servers for your low-priority AI workloads.
jprd 8 hours ago||
We were doing this decades ago with engineer's HP C3600s under their desks. It wasn't AI, just low-priority HPC / fluid stuff batched out to hundreds of workstations.
macintux 7 hours ago||
That was the original pitch for Ian Murdock's Progeny startup in the late 90s: a Linux-based distributed filesystem for corporate desktops to boot into overnight for distributed computing.
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