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Posted by 737max 14 hours ago

Gemini 4 Argon(deepmind.google)
See also: Gemini 4 Argon for Robotics - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50074869
1173 points | 836 commentspage 14
amai 12 hours ago|
A model that didn‘t break out of its sandbox and hacked other websites cannot be good.
l0kihardt 11 hours ago||
To be fair, Google has a real security team.
Andrex 8 hours ago|||
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2026/sep/18/google-ge...

?

deniska 11 hours ago|||
Or maybe Google actually knows how to set up a VM.
grim_io 10 hours ago|||
Argon has been hacking Google internally for years!

Related funny https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlTNN0gvkLM

dandaka 12 hours ago|||
They just don't know yet, wait for a few months
karp773 11 hours ago||
People complain about the slop-release. Who knows, maybe it is the first self-release by an AI model in history.
isityettime 14 hours ago||
Meanwhile, here's Gemini in practice:

Me: Gemini, navigate to nearest McDonalds.

Gemini: [Lists 10 McDonalds locations wnd asks which I want.]

Me: What were the priginal instructions just now?

Gemini: [Recites imperatives about tone and content from its memory system.]

Me: No. I told you to navigate to the NEAREST McDonalds. There's only one NEAREST McDonalds. Do that one.

Gemini: My mistake, navigating to the nearest McDonalds. [Opens Maps, navigating to a McDonalds across town.]

didibus 14 hours ago||
Pretty sure your phone assistant isn't using their best model. It's probably using one of the old flash models no?
elxr 12 hours ago|||
The model used is irrelevant when there's the critical issue where their "AI" assistant can't understand the word "nearest". Literally worse than a second-grade understanding of English.

I also have had shockingly bad results with gemini on android. Ended up giving up on it after a few months. Silly silly google with their trademark UX polish and attention to usability.

kingstnap 13 hours ago||||
When you ask stuff in your car on android auto it uses 3.5 flash-lite. The response details would include it in the logs.

Flash lite is very noticeably more idiotic than 3.8 Flash. It's why the quick AI overview is often much worse than the AI mode one.

Capricorn2481 12 hours ago|||
As an android user, this worked perfectly like 10 years ago.
isityettime 10 hours ago||
Yes, there's been a huge degradation in the reliability and usefulness of Google's digital assistant following its incorporation of "AI".
Capricorn2481 9 hours ago||
It's really puzzling. I was really happy with the original assistant, now it feels slower at literally everything.
compiler-guy 13 hours ago|||
This reflects pretty much every result of mine from Google these days. Not just navigation, but search too.

The only thing I can figure is that Google's consumer-facing free-to-use models are set to "reason as fast as possible with only the most basic plausibility checks." I have to correct them like this every single time.

bornfreddy 12 hours ago|||
Genuinely curious: why do you use them then? It's not like there is no competition in this area.
isityettime 10 hours ago|||
On Android, the public APIs available for digital assistants are more limited than the ones that Google gets to use for their own products. So if you want a digital assistant and you'd like to be able to hold a button on your phone and have it open a thread with an LLM (even if your screen is off), your digital assistant has to be Gemini. You can configure ChatGPT or Claude in its place, but then they can't manipulate or interact with apps in your phone very much. Or you can use an app like that for all of your LLM use but you can't conveniently summon it.

Similarly, you can run local LLMs on your Google Pixel smartphone, but if you want them to be hardware accelerated using the chip that's included for that very purpose on your phone... it has to be Google's models via Google's apps. So you can't say "alright, a fast, local model which sounds great, but I want one that is trained to always run a search before answering, in a harness with good search tools for answering the kinds of practical questions I often ask", you're actually not free to put that together in a practicable way.

So there is indeed some competition here. But it's not really fair competition.

compiler-guy 11 hours ago|||
I skip past them to the actual search results which tend to be much better.
sm-silversight 13 hours ago|||
Uh, yes, of course. search results are fast & cheap & free, why would they use the good models?
ASalazarMX 13 hours ago|||
The first law of robotics prevents it from facilitating regular ingestion of low-quality nutrients.
dgunay 11 hours ago|||
Gemini Flash is very dumb and gimped. Recent experience:

1. I ask it to list out all my old Keep notes that are just throwaway task lists, reminders, etc. to propose deleting them.

2. It comes up with like 4 of them (I know for a fact there are dozens, if not hundreds). I ask it for an exhaustive list.

3. I see its thinking trace briefly show "Refusing to produce an exhaustive list..." and then it says "Yes, that is all of them."

Not sure whether it's lack of intelligence, bad tools, or both, but that was extremely frustrating to see.

gorbot 13 hours ago|||
this is like that tiktok guy who asks the spoken ChatGPT model very simple questions, like 'count down from 60', or 'how many e's in seventeen' or whatever and the model shits the bed every time it's hilarious

I think these companies have good models but expose them poorly like others have mentioned

sva_ 11 hours ago|||
My Gemini app on Android does not even have an exact location permission you could give it, so I'm not sure how you think that would work?

If it had exact location access people would be crying that Gemini steals their location data.

staticman2 13 hours ago|||
Often it seems like the problem with the Gemini apps is the harness, not the model itself. For example if I upload an image PDF it recognizes text worse than if I use the API.
isityettime 10 hours ago||
Agreed! I feel that they're pouring all of this work into models and then squandering that work by integrating them into bad products.
RajuChacha108 13 hours ago|||
Is this from you car ? Gemini in car is probably less intelligent than a spider.

I tell it to "Play Let it go from frozen". It plays it on youtube music. 5 seconds later I tell it again 'Play let it go from frozen" it then just dies saying "I can't play videos in car".

foota 13 hours ago|||
The auto version is extra horrible because what it reads to you is just a summary of what the model actually said. I don't ask it anything when driving because it's too frustrating.
dyauspitr 13 hours ago|||
Yeah, whatever they have running on Google Maps is probably a pretty low tier model, but it is total trash. I’ve only used it twice though and that’s when it first came out. I don’t know if there have been any changes since then. The main problem is I felt like it was not keeping track of the context of the session.
LewisOrton 13 hours ago|||
Gemini models are in fact very good. Google's harness(es) for Gemini are nightmares, terrible
LewisOrton 13 hours ago||
ngl gemini is helping to provide (real helpful, not the ones giving runarounds) customer services in one of my own products.

i benchmarked 20+ models in real worlds and gemini families are the best (highest customer satisfaction)

jeffbee 13 hours ago|||
It sounds like the tool call is probably not grounded with your precise position.
moffkalast 13 hours ago|||
Sounds like it might not have your precise location in context?
jabroni_salad 12 hours ago||
which is more or less the crux of the problem android auto's gemini implementation. It sometimes does not even know that it is in a car. The ghome implementation is also like this.
polynomial 13 hours ago||
I hate to be that guy, but Tesla's Grok doesn't seem to have that problem.
mistic92 14 hours ago||
I'm pro and I see that I need to be Ultra to use Argon :/
robotmay 13 hours ago|
Honestly not even that is enough, I exhausted the limit within 5 minutes of trying to use it. I'll stick to Flash I think.
olafura 10 hours ago|||
Yeah, the limit was exhausted weirdly fast compared to openai and anthropic models. I checked the thread to see if more people had this issue on the 5x plan, but why pay for more when it's barely usable for real work.

Which is even weirder given that the api costs are less than for the other providers

Maybe they don't really care about antigravity users. Also, monitoring usage is horrible.

kaszanka 5 hours ago||||
Looks like each message takes up a flat 15% of the 5-hour limit on the $20 subscription.
skerit 13 hours ago|||
Really? Reminds me of Gemini 3. It took so long before being able to get a subscription for it, and then I would run out of their equivalent of the 5-hour usage window in a heartbeat.
robotmay 13 hours ago||
Yeah maybe I've just become used to how much I can use Flash 3.7/3.8 but on the less expensive Ultra plan I basically never exhaust my quota even when working over multiple projects, but this was pretty much immediate. I did ask it to audit a project but still, I do that in Flash regularly and it's not especially costly.
metalliqaz 11 hours ago||
Are the limits restricted on launch day because of all the interest?
tiwaryswarnim 7 hours ago||
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nicolamanzini 11 hours ago||
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maaaz7n 6 hours ago||
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7277027 2 hours ago||
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jjjsch-dev 13 hours ago||
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limmytian 1 hour ago||
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0xWTF 3 hours ago|
How is Claude Opus 5.5 beating Gemini 4 Argon on benchmarks but everyone here is calling Argon a step change? I need to come up with my own benchmarks ...
dash-44 2 hours ago|
They're calling Argon a step change for Google, not the industry...