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Posted by lovewins 4 hours ago

Florida's HOAs and condo associations are making the housing crisis worse(hoaspy.com)
136 points | 234 commentspage 3
davidw 3 hours ago|
Thanks to Governor Kotek, Oregon passed a bit of housing reform in 2025 that lets you build 'middle housing' despite anything an HOA says. I was really happy to go to Salem (Oregon's capital) to speak in favor of that.
tamimio 3 hours ago||
Home issue will never get solved unless houses are mandated by law to be a shelter, not an investment, or at least, an asset that depreciates over time same way japan did it. As long as housing is considered an investment, it will always go up to the point they become like now, their values become speculative rather than real actual cost, and that will open the doors for many monkey business to keep the speculative prices high. An authoritarian law to change housing to shelter rights will solve it, not a democratic one since majority of voters are home owners or who is in charge it’s in their interests to keep it that way. Will that happen? Not peacefully I assume, so many things are built on the current status, from banks interests and creating credits out of thin air, to countries economy based on keeping people near certain spots to milk more taxes, remember, one of the biggest reasons why WFH was attacked in such coordinated way is to protect the real-estate industry and the things built around it.
gavinsyancey 4 hours ago||
LLM written.
tptacek 4 hours ago||
I'd rather not read LLM output, but this post is mostly a data presentation, not a written argument.
arjie 4 hours ago|||
That's actually the more dangerous situation. For instance, a meta-analysis of 394 blog posts suggests that 94% of LLM-written data presentations use spurious statistics. In addition, 2513 posts out of 3408 analyzed were found to use the same fabricated data. Click here for more info on singles near you.
tptacek 4 hours ago||
At this point I trust statistics in LLM output about as much as I do policy position statistics from humans; that is: you need to double check things either way.
arjie 3 hours ago||
That is certainly a good method to maintain epistemic hygiene. All things indeed do need to be double-checked before confirmation into the net. However, would you say you read your spam section and double-check each email as much as you do those in your inbox? Or do you use heuristics to dismiss some things more than you do others? If you do, in fact, expend the same energy on all sources of data then I understand your resistance to the idea of classification by source.
mym1990 4 hours ago|||
It’s literally like 90% text, and it’s not an insignificant amount of text.
tptacek 4 hours ago||
It's text presenting data, for the most part, not text trying to emotively persuade, which is the norm in pieces like this.
marzetti 4 hours ago|||
This comment effectively places a lien on the article - check the article to see the analogy!
themanmaran 4 hours ago|||
Yea even reading the first couple paragraphs I can't really get a sense of what it's trying to say. Feels like generic claude output and doesn't really communicate what the "crisis" is or how it's getting "worse".
khazhoux 3 hours ago||
The debt was the accusation. The frustration was the catalyst.
cucumber3732842 4 hours ago||
We all wanna blame HOAs. Nobody asks why HOA? The legal BS to set one up isn't free, so why?

The near universal proliferation of owner's associations and management groups and whatnot for developments larger than ~1ac (the EPA threshold, some states/towns have lower) is something you can lay at the feet of the Clean Water Act and it's implementation and precedents over the following decades.

Developers don't do anything that costs money, like set up an HOA, without a reason. The developers create the HOA because you need your >1ac residential development to pass stormwater permitting. While you theoretically could make each individual .25ac parcel you're putting a house on compliant as a standalone it's infinitely cheaper to just ignore all that, grade everything toward the road, dig a ditch, send the contents of the ditch through your stormwater treatment features, build in a little margin to those items, show the permitting authority the numbers that prove it passes with flying colors and when some jerk says "but what if X Y Z changes" you point to the excess you built in and tell them to GFY.

Now, where it really gets evil is when you start really pinching pennies or where the rules change over the course of the process making your numbers not work. Say you've got a lot of grade, a lot of rainfall, a lot of stormwater you gotta "treat". Well, you start adding rules to the HOA. Require certain parts of the lots remains grass or planter or whatever. Disallow patios, but do allow wood decks because the municipality considers those pervious, etc, etc. Or maybe the results you've got are marginal but you throw the bureaucrats a bone by saying you'll disallow car-ports and sheds in the HOA rules to prevent people from adding impervious surface. Or maybe you're uphill of some wetlands but not close enough to be regulated by default you promise to disallow working on cars and require people pick up their pet waste and not use lawn fertilizer or some other laundry list of certain things in order to make the local town's wetlands people comfortable not raising objection and claiming jurisdiction.

And of course, however these rules and plans shake out, the HOA is responsible for enforcing whatever those rules and requirements are in perpetuity so it's not like a pissed off majority can show up to vote "ok, this has gone too far, pack it in boys"

But nobody wants to talk about any of that because it's uncomfortable.

napierzaza 1 hour ago||
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nradov 4 hours ago||
HOAs are great. They keep the AirBnB trash out.
levocardia 4 hours ago||
Might as well just say "I want to control what other people do with their private property"
monksy 3 hours ago|||
Short term renters, questionable people (thieves, renters who abuse the properties around them, people who use the property poorly [massive parties that bring guns + drunk loud people]), illegal activities (like off permit filming of commercial works), brings disproportionate problems to the neighbors. Airbnb is a lightning rod of people who do that. That's one of the reasons why hotels have weird rules in states and cities.
nkrisc 3 hours ago||||
That’s not really a controversial idea and nearly everyone who owns a home where you can see your neighbor’s house wants to do that to some degree.

If you live in close proximity to other people, you should not be allowed to do whatever you want on your private property.

Pretty much every municipality already has laws that limit you in that manner.

chasd00 3 hours ago||||
If you live in an area covered by an HOA then you signed up for it, literally, like your signature is on the paperwork. I have zero sympathy.
caymanjim 4 hours ago||||
That is exactly what the people who live under HOAs want. I despise HOAs, but I'm happy that the kind of people who like HOAs have a community they can all congregate in. It keeps some of them from mingling with the rest of us.
tayo42 3 hours ago|||
You already can't do what ever you want with your own property.
saghm 4 hours ago||
I have a house. I have no HOA. I'm very happy with this situation and don't see any possible value that an HOA could add to this situation.

Funnily enough, there does seem to be a sort of wannabe HOA in my neighborhood that is always dropping things off in our mailbox asking for donations and telling us about events. I never give them any money, and never go to their events though, so either they don't provide any value or the value they provide apparently is not derived from them having any enforcement power.

StilesCrisis 3 hours ago|||
If you have wonderful neighbors, HOAs are unnecessary.

If you have horrible neighbors you will wish you had one.

pretzellogician 3 hours ago|||
Unless those horrible neighbors are part of the HOA's board.
saghm 3 hours ago||||
Or maybe I'd be circumspect to recognize that my neighbors having rights is just the price of me having rights, just like I'm not in favor of a police state even if it means that sometimes people will commit crimes. Who knows!
rc5150 3 hours ago|||
I have horrible neighbors and no HOA. I do not wish I was apart of an HOA.
ghaff 3 hours ago|||
And I have a house without a HOA but did go through a bunch of complicated (and expensive) easement agreements and survey definitions that LePage’s to a lot of loose-gooey hand shakes and outright mistakes over the years.
saghm 3 hours ago||
And you think that the solution to having to deal with other people making claims about your property is to just fully cede the jurisdiction of them?
ghaff 3 hours ago||
I am by no means a fan of JOAS in general but things like the maintenance of private roads including winter plowing do need to be dealt with and while a couple of neighbors can probably get agreements drawn up for “only” $10K each, that only goes so far if more people are involved.
monksy 4 hours ago|
Now I don't trust HOAs but some of this is deceptive weasally writing.

> They foreclose on their own members, over debts that start small

There are members who refuse to pay special assessments or fees for the community. Given that's Flordia, theres an above average population that would believe "they aren't required to" even though they accepted it when starting. (yes there are abusive HOAs and there are non-sense fines.. and sometimes those nonsense fines come from people neglecting the property in a very bad situation)

It's your job to handle it when it's a small situation. Moving to the stage of liens takes more time to do that and then resolving that usually happens on sale or refinancing.

mrj 3 hours ago||
Sure, but it makes sense to research one you're about to buy into and there's a lot more to the site than this post. I clicked around some.

This site seems to provide some data that's compelling. I see some gaps in California and a couple of liens that mention FL in Los Angeles. Maybe it's a starting point if moving though. This kind of transparency is a good thing. Some HOAs are abusive.

mschuster91 4 hours ago||
> Now I don't trust HOAs but some of this is deceptive weasally writing.

No surprise, it reeks of being written by an LLM.

monksy 4 hours ago||
Highly suggested that it's influenced by forums who have reported poor situations by people that have been in them.