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Posted by hkc 15 hours ago

Eight Bits of Trust: eMudhra's CA keys cracked in milliseconds(scotthelme.co.uk)
812 points | 392 commentspage 4
maeln 14 hours ago|
eMudhra explanation : https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2083449#c11

Kind of hard to understand how a bug would have generated a second pair of key so bad, and how would human would have ended up using them. Never attribute to malice what can be attributed to stupidity, but sometimes you wonder.

amoss 11 hours ago||
Given the usefulness of this to anybody who knew about it between the ceremony and now - assume malice.
palata 2 hours ago||
If I was to leak a private key for malicious use, I would leak a good key that only I know.
dist-epoch 13 hours ago|||
And an equal amount of stupidity in the whole ecosystem, apparently there are no "unit-tests" for trivial failure modes, like 8 bits of entropy, before adding a CA to the trusted list.

What next, googling the public key finds a 2 year old pastebin with the private key?

silvestrov 13 hours ago||
Even just a human glancing at the private key should do it.

Don't they even test script changes on a staging server? How could there be such a script error in production that was not caught in testing/staging?

This sounds very like a fundamental organization error, not an innocent whoopsie. It should lead to a permanent ban of the organization.

karel-3d 12 hours ago||
Well humans should NOT glance at private keys! That is the whole point of HSMs!
consp 12 hours ago|||
I'm still flabergasted the HSM allowed this key to be generated. Then again, I've worked with HSMs, there are always many mistakes in the firmware, usually less severe though.
karel-3d 12 hours ago||
It seems there was some issue with the ceremony with some wrapping/unwrapping scripts.

They explicitly said they wanted to export the keys from the HSM; the keys were intended for USA/Europe (for sovereignty reasons) but were never actually used.

It seems the HSM itself worked, their ceremony around wrapping/unwrapping didn't.

consp 11 hours ago||
Makes more sense.

I'm sure the Utimaco's used (haven't worked with one) also allow all slots to contain the same name or keys with the same name and the device always selecting the first one if you only provide the name and not the slot ID or token identifier. Don't ask how I found out the hard way.

karel-3d 11 hours ago||
Yes there was something about key names in the write-up (which I cannot find now)

oh here

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2083449#c11

silvestrov 11 hours ago|||
But eMudhra wanted to (was required to) export the keys.

So using an HSM in the first place is a security theater. Or that this HSM isn't really an HSM since it allows for export of the private key.

The trusted enclave in a MacBook is more secure than this HSM.

karel-3d 10 hours ago|||
There is something called "wrapping/unwrapping" - you encrypt the key, move it to the other HSM, and it unwraps it. So what moves around is encrypted. I don't know enough about HSMs to tell you if it's done using symetric or asymetric crypto, but no the key should not move around in the plaintext.

The write-up from eMudhra mentions something about wrapping/unwrapping ceremony failing.

xvector 10 hours ago|||
Most HSMs used by CAs are pretty trash tbh.
sobkas 13 hours ago||
Any sufficiently advanced malice is indistinguishable from stupidity.
RetroTechie 11 hours ago|||
The reverse is also true:

Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from malice.

SAI_Peregrinus 11 hours ago|||
Never assume stupidity for what can adequately be explained by profitable malice.

Never assume unprofitable malice for what can adequately be explained by stupidity.

AnkitGuptaTruth 7 hours ago||
The needful is complete
jesuswasjew 10 hours ago||
This does not look like blunder; more like espionage. The bigger guys are throwing emudra under the bus.
bstsb 10 hours ago|
“espionage” would involve a private key shared with the three-letter agencies, not a key anyone could crack in seconds
jesuswasjew 9 hours ago||
anyone = themselves. The key ceremony is supposed to be nuke launch level secure. That 4 pass many eyes.
Ohentis 6 hours ago||
I somewhat doubt it. Having many people, even at your own company, know your private key seems like a problem of it's own. In fact it's likely to me that no human has ever seen it until now.
russfink 9 hours ago||
> One of eMudhra's certificate authority private keys is the number 4.

https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/random_number.png

throwitaway222 8 hours ago||
Predicting more LAN devices come pre-installed with a variety of private VPN options and an option to route all traffic from specific devices through that.
pwfisher 21 hours ago||
Test your browser and update your system's certificates: https://emudhra.we-have-a-problem.com/
Gabrys1 11 hours ago||
This has a big upside: I can now MITM any Android app / IOT device without any suspicious set up on the device? (given it'll run on the unupdated OS and that cert revocation is not ON).
buzer 7 hours ago||
You also need to block access to the approved CT list until it fails open after 70 days.

This is assuming the CT logs no longer issue SCTs for these CAs. If they do then you just need to the CT dance and publish that certificate there.

Of course this assumes the app/device isn't using certificate pinning.

eob 11 hours ago||
With the speed of vibe coding.. I'd expect the "Reverse Engineer Anything" folks to come out with a "Man in the Middle Anything" app by lunch
eviks 12 hours ago||
> recovered all of them from their public certificates on my laptop just now, and it took less than a second.

Why wasn't this second spend by the parties accepting those certificates as valid before they were accepted?

Scott_Helme_ 8 hours ago|
It's a valid question at this point.
zkmon 6 hours ago||
Anything to update/check for Macs running on various versions of the OS?
Scott_Helme_ 6 hours ago|
Apple has blocked the intermediates, so updating is good enough to resolve it for you.
hypfer 13 hours ago|
This is not a good write-up. Yesterday's discussion did contain better data, less self-Promotion and actually asked why it happened, instead of just saying "number small".
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