Top
Best
New

Posted by armcat 9 hours ago

OpenAI models are coming to Google Cloud(openai.com)
188 points | 85 comments
nsagent 5 hours ago|
Gotta love the disclaimer at the bottom:

  Microsoft remains OpenAI’s primary cloud partner.
hobofan 4 hours ago||
Things that you only say because you are contractually forced to say them.
merelydev 4 hours ago||
Or don't want to crash stock price.
echelon 4 hours ago|||
OpenAI buys from Azure because of the Microsoft investment deal.

OpenAI sells and reaches enterprise customers via GCP.

Enterprises want zero data retention guarantees and they're already on AWS or GCP, so this is how OpenAI reaches those customers and makes more money.

_boffin_ 2 hours ago|||
Microsoft has had ZDR for inference since pretty much the beginning. Just needed to fill out a form and get approved.
_diyar 54 minutes ago||
However, consider this:

> Enterprises with Google Cloud spend commitments will be able to draw down their GCP commitments for these purchases.

keerthiko 3 hours ago|||
isn't the largest portion of openAI's reach to (overwhelming cloud provider leader AWS) enterprise customers via amazon bedrock?
paxy 2 hours ago||
OpenAI only launched on bedrock ~3 months ago, so I doubt it. It has been running on azure since day 1.
neuroelectron 40 minutes ago||
Isn't Google renting cloud compute from XAI?
v4dm 35 minutes ago|||
Yep, and they pay them like 900 mil per mo for it, pretty crazy from the company that first brought TPUs to market
v4dm 35 minutes ago|||
Google also has a stake in xAI... so they are financing themselves too
fakedang 17 minutes ago||
AI centipede
londons_explore 3 hours ago||
> Enterprises with Google Cloud spend commitments will be able to draw down their GCP commitments for these purchases.

This is a fairly big move by Google... It means revenue they have already booked and reported to shareholders they now might have to give away - potentially all of it. Bean counters hate that!

paxy 2 hours ago||
“Reported to shareholders” doesn’t really mean anything. There are thousands of such line items on financial reports. The ones that matter, such as recognized revenue, don’t count future bookings. It is understood that customers renege on these commitments all the time.

Google is simply telling customers - there’s a new Google Cloud service, and you can use it under your existing account.

redwood 1 hour ago||
Let's not quite right... you don't recognize revenue in a consumption business until the usage actually happened
londons_explore 1 hour ago||
pretty sure that's what the "spend commitment" changes. It's a "use it or lose it" agreement. It's as good as a debt the moment it is signed, used or not.
mediaman 10 minutes ago|||
GAAP does not permit booking contracted future revenue onto the balance sheet or income statement, because the spend is not actually an unconditional debt until the service has been rendered.

It doesn't matter if it's committed or not, it still won't be recognized on the formal financial statements.

MisterMunchkin 37 minutes ago|||
I think they declare it as pipeline revenue or something instead of current year revenue
anthonypasq 2 hours ago||
Sergey better really go into "founder mode" or else Thomas Kurian (head of GCP) will continue to eat Deepmind's lunch.

Between selling TPUs to external companies and now hosting competitor models, Gemini just doesnt have the full faith of the Alphabet capital allocators, and I can't really blame them. A mature company like google would rather just expand their extremely profitable cloud business rather than dump billions into a black hole on the off chance they achieve RSI or superintelligence or whatever.

bitpush 46 minutes ago||
> Our cloud business is at any given moment in time forgoing short-term revenues because we are making compute trade-offs to support frontier AI development

Sundar Pichai just this week.

https://finance.yahoo.com/technology/ai/articles/google-ceo-...

paxy 1 hour ago|||
What does “capital allocators” mean here? If your implication is that the Gemini org is resource starved and a few extra dollars will put their model in the lead that is 100% incorrect. If anything it’s the bloat and bureaucracy keeping it behind.

Signing partnerships and hosting third party models costs Google nothing, and in fact brings in a ton of revenue that will eventually go back into Gemini.

skohan 1 hour ago|||
Infra might very well be the right play. Over the past year, it seems like the evidence is on the side that there's no "secret sauce" in AI, and models will all converge towards similar capabilities. Not much margin to be had for having the best model for a month or less until another lab leapfrogs you by 3%.
hax0ron3 2 hours ago||
Google uses Gemini for its AI Overview on Google Search results, though. And it seems to me that this is an area where they really have a big incentive to run their own AI that they completely control. AI Overview sits at the top of the Google Search results first page, so when it comes to marketing it's sitting in the most coveted place on the entire Internet.
anthonypasq 1 hour ago|||
im talking about research compute allocation
kenhwang 1 hour ago|||
It's also marketing that their AI is hilariously terrible because AI Overview is the biggest posterchild for AI slop and often used as an example of how bad Google is at AI. Gemini proper isn't that bad, just the ultra cost cutting version on search is.
eecks 1 hour ago|||
It has gotten a lot better and it's useful for information on most normal search queries now.
sebzim4500 1 hour ago|||
To be fair the search version of Gemini is nowhere near as bad as it used to be. The bar is in the floor I know.
open592 4 hours ago||
I don't understand all the wild speculation and question here - openai is selling a shit ton of inference through third parties. these third parties want to provide inference to their customers who use gcp (and don't want to also inference through bedrock or azure ai foundary.

these are all zdr engagements and thus "enterprise" contracts.

basically it boils down to - anthropic already provides inference direct through GCP, Azure, and AWS - so to compete openai is doing the same.

123haw 4 hours ago||
Preparing for Oracle bankruptcy.
kps 3 hours ago||
There's always a silver lining!
esseph 2 hours ago||
I could only hope...
bananzamba 4 hours ago||
How are they trusting Google not to destill them
dumberquestions 4 hours ago||
This is speculation, but funnily enough Gemini models show the least evidence of being distilled from OAI or Anthropic compared to everything else in the market.
BudaDude 3 hours ago||
I feel this is correct. Google has probably the most data of any company in the world. For better or worse, they don't need to train on the outputs of other models.
iamdelirium 4 hours ago|||
GCP already hosts Anthropic models so probably trusts and lawyers.
lrvick 4 hours ago|||
Probably a very strict contract, and letting OpenAI read all the session logs like they do for their own customers.
aviinuo 4 hours ago|||
Nvidia GPUs let you load encrypted weights onto them and to decrypt on chip so Google would need to have some sort of Nvidia management firmware attack to read from HBM while the GPU is live
zeroxfe 3 hours ago|||
Distillation does not require access to weights.
jayd16 3 hours ago||||
Isn't distillation more of a black box type affair?
binlog 4 hours ago||||
Doesn’t really matter what happens at the GPU level when Google can see all API traffic.
worldsavior 4 hours ago|||
Except google cloud doesn't use Nvidia GPUs but TPUs.
Mond_ 3 hours ago||
Google has both. Afaik we don't know whether OpenAI models will run on TPUs or GPUs here.
tgma 2 hours ago||
I bet it would be the NVIDIA, at least initially, not for the encryption capability per se, but for simple fact that adapting to TPU at high performance is non-trivial.
amelius 3 hours ago|||
First answer this: How are they trusting OpenRouter not to distill them?
skohan 1 hour ago||
Open router doesn't host the models, so they wouldn't have access to the weights or reasoning traces right?
amelius 1 hour ago||
They can still collect (input,output) pairs.
tgma 3 hours ago|||
America is a high-trust society.
toephu2 2 hours ago|||
Japan is a high-trust society. America is the opposite.
skohan 1 hour ago|||
The US is medium trust.
tgma 2 hours ago|||
Everything is relative, but fair enough.
paxy 3 hours ago|||
More like - America is a high-litigation society.
tgma 2 hours ago||
I don't believe threat of litigation alone explains the extent of it.

The way an American company, esp a reputable one like Google, conducts itself internally is different. There will be much more internal backlash to do the wrong thing way before litigation.

binlog 4 hours ago|||
Contracts and lawyers are more powerful than any technical tool.
amelius 3 hours ago||
Yeah like the copyright lawyers of content owners that got their works trained on?
paxy 3 hours ago||
How many trillions of dollars were those content owners worth?
kridsdale1 2 hours ago||
Enough. They just weren’t working in coordination.
paxy 1 hour ago||
You are vastly overestimating the power of publishers. The top book publisher in the US is worth $5 billion. All publishers together are about $50 billion. The New York Times is $11 billion. Fox is about $15-25 billion. Add together every single book publisher, newspaper, magazine, TV/radio, digital publisher and really every print and broadcasting platform in the country and you’d reach about $100-$150 billion. That is roughly 3% of Google.

These companies have a ton of cultural capital, sure, but in American capitalism that means nothing.

WarmWash 4 hours ago||
Google Cloud couldn't give a shit about Google Deepmind, and backdooring Clouds customers only stands to hurt Cloud.
mlmonkey 1 hour ago||
Google should just spin out DeepMind as an independent company and get out of the model building business: just sell tents and shovels as they say, and leave the actual (gold) mining to others.
hax0ron3 1 hour ago|
Google Search is still a large fraction of Alphabet's revenue, and Alphabet needs to be able to deliver AI results for people's searches if it wants to stay relevant in the search game.

I imagine it's much easier to have fine grained control over AI search results if you develop and own the AI yourself.

dpkirchner 1 hour ago||
Last I checked their AI results were terrible, worse than anything I get from ChatGPT or Claude. The only benefit is their AI results are fast.

If I were google there's no way I'd leave their AI overviews in place as-is.

hax0ron3 58 minutes ago||
I was thinking about them fine-tuning the results for marketing purposes. But I just did a bit of research and it seems that would probably actually be illegal. So never mind, maybe?
TiredOfLife 1 hour ago||
And Google is renting compute from SpaceX.
AznHisoka 3 hours ago|
Does this mean OpenAI is going to use TPU now?
More comments...