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Posted by gnabgib 9 hours ago

America has lost 200k of jobs in media, film and the arts. How much is AI?(www.apricitas.io)
335 points | 328 comments
jparishy 7 hours ago|
I liked this article. I appreciate that it didn't try to say it is or isn't AI.

To me, the entertainment industry suffers from a lot of the same problems in most other industries that chase "efficiency", in terms of resources used and profit made. Economies and industries and labor are interdependent and more "alive" than balance sheets and bank accounts.

For the film industry, when you start moving things away from LA to "save money", it has knock on effects that happen over long periods of time. Multiple Quarterly Earnings Reports long, if you will. Local businesses that depend on the film industry close due to less work, so then there is less expertise available. Less expertise means it can command high prices. Suddenly it's too expensive to film in LA altogether. So the rest of the jobs leave too.

This pattern seems super common, not just in the film industry.

It is a narrative that interweaves with AI, too. AI is supposedly an efficiency boom. In the macroeconomy, who is the "efficiency" we are chasing for, who benefits? Who is getting the money that was "saved"? Regular people do not have more more money or time. The "efficiency" is for people who are already very rich, to get richer. Is that worth the price we're paying? I know my answer. The article gets close to it by mentioning the consolidation in Hollywood, but I do not see how we fix this without enforcing our antitrust laws. It is embarrassing what we let rich people do in the name of stock price go up.

somenameforme 48 minutes ago||
In general I fully agree except with your conclusion. In the short-run efficiency immediately benefits the established players, but in the long-run it benefits, more or less literally, everybody except them. Because as you bring the price down on things you enable more efficient competition. Competition increases, margins decrease, baseline minimal standard of quality for success increases.

Software is a very clear example on this front. Valheim [1] is a game that was made mostly by one guy, at first at least. Not that long ago, this would have been a multi million dollar game produced by a wide array of people. It's just that tools, markets, and more have made it possible for even single developers to have an absurd degree of efficiency. And LLMs are probably going to bump this up exponentially.

This is why a metaphor I'm currently drawn to is one of people living in a very agrarian society just prior to the Industrial Revolution. What would they have envisioned being created? Super farms of course. And those super farms were indeed created, but the overall impact was such that those super farms became a practically inconsequential part of the overall economy. The future we're moving into isn't going to be the same but more efficient for those on top. That efficiency is going to revolutionize the economy in ways that are probably impossible to see from a distant, much how somebody living in an agrarian society couldn't have even begun to imagine the 'real' impact of the Industrial Revolution.

[1] - https://store.steampowered.com/app/892970/Valheim/

patrickk 48 seconds ago||
Not only is Valheim remarkable for the fact that’s it’s largely a one man show, it’s also a labour of love that couldn’t come out of the AAA gaming world, which is creatively bankrupt. They’re busy trashing beloved gaming series left and right and shuttering once beloved studios.

We’re now entering a new era where projects like Halo Reclaimer[1] are more creative and more popular than some of the slop put out by the AAA world with massive marketing budgets.

[1] https://fangamesdb.com/games/project-reclaimer-halo-3.html

solatic 3 hours ago|||
> when you start moving things away from LA to "save money"

Economic hubs work when there is more efficiency to be found in industrially-codependent resources being located close to each other, than there is in cheaper labor costs outside the hub. Hollywood's heyday was when there was enormous value to putting actors, agents, producers, cameras, sets, editors, VFX, writers all within close driving distance of each other, so that you could organize new movies and shows at the drop of a hat. In a day and age when teenagers are able to use cellphone cameras and pocketmoney to produce stories that are compelling enough to command attention and advertising dollars, the value of that geographic proximity has declined tremendously.

AI didn't build the coffin, but it's been putting nails in it.

alex43578 46 minutes ago|||
Another huge nail was the strikes - business will continue with or without those on the picket line, but it just moved to where there weren't strikes.
cm2187 2 hours ago||||
There are also tax considerations, even movies get shot away from Hollywood.
derektank 7 hours ago|||
>Regular people do not have more more money or time

Of course they do. Median real weekly wages[1] have been rising for decades all while the average number of hours worked per worker have fallen[2].

[1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/les1252881600Q

[2] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/avhwpeusa065nrug

darth_avocado 6 hours ago|||
Meanwhile household basics increased faster than wages. In other words people don’t have more money.

https://www.unitedforalice.org/essentials-index

derektank 6 hours ago|||
The term “real” means the values are adjusted for inflation
smallmancontrov 6 hours ago||
...which is notorious for using a dogshit basket and basket-update methodology to make the number look good.
littlecranky67 36 minutes ago|||
The basket is dogshit, but not for the reason you probably think. Our lives improved tremendously by technology: internet, smartphone, videogames, netflix & co, medical progress, online shopping of any goods you can possible imagine, ability to travel the world for cheap.

The problem with the CPI basket is, it needs to be constant of products to be comparable, so NO technological advancement is considered in that basket. Instead, they use the price of butter and tomatoes. Well, a fictious 1950s person wouldn't care that is can buy more butter or tomatoes than we can, but would want smartphone and a plane ticket to thailand.

Avicebron 6 hours ago|||
Yup. The St. Louis Fed is a joke. Inflation of owners' equivalent rent alone blows the whole argument up..
vconnor 1 hour ago||
I love that any time there’s a discussion about inflation, someone posts that link.

“If you would please look at the chart…” when it is known that inflation is a politically-charged figure that is indirectly manipulated to show much lower figures than the price increases the average person with average expenses (rent, car, fuel, food, etc.) experiences.

Let alone doing comparison of inflation over longer timespans. Garbage model in, garbage numbers out.

littlecranky67 28 minutes ago||
It is not necessarily politically influence. You simply cannot measure inflation properly. See my siblin comment about technology - it is just impossible to compare the life of a 1920s person to a 2020s person based on tomatos, butter and rent. Because the access to products that didn't exist at the given quality level in 2020 is impossible to price in.

You can think of it with a thought experiment: A smartphone (with hypothetical internet) in 1920 would be worth almost all the money in the world. If you simply had one smartphone in 1920, the richest billionares would offer most of their wealth to have one. Hence in 1920, a smartphone would be worth at least $10M in todays money. Yet you can buy one for $500 today - so you are twenty-thousand times richer than 1920. The same applies for flatscreen TVs, antibiotics (really valueable when you need it), polio vacination etc.

You can't measure this with CPI, yet people complain about the CPI is fake. It is just a statistical average, no more no less. It always was irrelevant. It is the arguments people do with that number, that are bullshit. Basic statistics teach you never use an average to come to conclusions about the individual.

manlymuppet 6 hours ago||||
This is research from a labor advocacy group, with the explicit aim of the organization to advocate for this sort of thing. This doesn't mean the research is is automatically invalid, but it is bias worth mentioning.

Looking at an article from the CATO institute, over the last 30 years wages have climbed 169 percent, while food prices 111 percent.

But an even better measure is PCE, or personal consumption index. Rather than CPI, or any other "household basics" measure, which subjectively categorize goods and then tracks those, PCE measures the total dollar amount spent by the entire U.S. consumer sector on goods and services. This is what is used by the FRED database referenced in the reply above.

https://www.cato.org/commentary/why-dire-pronouncements-abou...

vlovich123 6 hours ago|||
I feel like people complain about “food” but it’s a stand-in and that the cumulative increase in rent, transportation and food probably rose faster than wages. So Cato reply “but food hasn’t grown as fast as wages” is a myopic retort (admittedly one they acknowledge) that tries to fight the narrow factual argument ignoring the broader one where the emotional narrative probably remains true.
pj_mukh 5 hours ago||
Also we can probably simplify this bucket even more and just talk about the elephant in the room which is rent/mortgage.

It’s 30 to 50% of most peoples paycheck, it’s really the piece that matters and the one that is most complicated to solve.

WalterBright 4 hours ago|||
The government heavily interferes in the housing industry. Hence, the higher costs. It's the same for everything the government interferes with - such as education and health care.

For examples:

1. there are 57,000 unoccupied apartments in NYC because city regulations on rents make them unprofitable to rent out.

2. the glacial pace of issuing building permits for burned out homes in LA.

3. the sudden influx of many millions of immigrants pushes up the demand for housing, resulting in higher prices

throwaway2037 1 hour ago|||

    > 1. there are 57,000 unoccupied apartments in NYC because city regulations on rents make them unprofitable to rent out.
The correct quote should be:

    > According to state data, approximately 57,421 rent-stabilized apartments were vacant across New York City
The key term here is "rent-stabilized". And the reasons why they are vacant is much more complex "because city regulations on rents make them unprofitable to rent out". That is simply one category of rent-stabilized apartments that are vacant.
AnthonyMouse 55 minutes ago||
> And the reasons why they are vacant is much more complex "because city regulations on rents make them unprofitable to rent out".

Is it actually more complex than that? If the regulation that makes it unprofitable to rent them out is rent control, that's still an accurate statement of why they're not being rented out.

0c3ca83 2 hours ago||||
> there are 57,000 unoccupied apartments in NYC

That's about 2.4% of the total number of rented apartments, and about 1.5% of the total housing stock.

How long do you think those apartments are unoccupied, on average?

What portion of the stock do you think would normally be healthy to have on the market?

WalterBright 1 hour ago||
google prompt: "how many unoccupied apartments in nyc"

Scroll down a bit and read the section: "Key Causes of Vacancies"

Timon3 4 hours ago|||
[flagged]
socalgal2 3 hours ago|||
I genuinely can not understand how anyone with basic knowledge of economics could believe that government intervention is not responsible for the majority of rent price increases

The market, left to its own, will keep building because someone will see the prices people are willing to pay and think “I want in on that” but then the government comes in and blocks them from building. No building = supply lower than demand which always equals higher costs

Further, It would only have taken you one 5 second search to see the ways government regulations can cause unoccupied apartments

https://www.google.com/search?q=in+what+ways+can+government+...

WalterBright 4 hours ago||||
That's because you inserted the word "all" which was quite absent from what I wrote.

Please try again.

P.S. google "how many unoccupied apartments in nyc"

JumpCrisscross 4 hours ago|||
> all unoccupied apartments in a market

Which market are you thinking of?

Timon3 4 hours ago||
Let's assume I'm talking about the same market as the person I responded to.
JumpCrisscross 3 hours ago||
> the same market as the person I responded to

Los Angeles? Where the homeowner vacancy rate is 0.7% and rental vacancy 4%?

If you literally weren't thinking of anywhere when your responded, where did you get the notion from?

[1] https://api.census.gov/data/missing_key.html +/- one percent

SyzygyRhythm 4 hours ago||||
It's not very complicated; it's just that the solutions are deeply unpopular. Making housing affordable by definition means driving down prices. But existing homeowners don't like to see their home prices go down! And about 2/3 of the US public lives in a house owned by a resident.

I'm semi-convinced that the reason why we see so many bad ideas in housing is because the good ideas negatively affect too much of the voting public. Or, they perceive the ideas as negatively affecting them.

nradov 4 hours ago|||
You're mistaken about the reasons why solutions are unpopular. Have you actually talked to the most active NIMBYs who oppose new housing development? Most of them are barely aware of affordability and home prices. They have lived in the same neighborhood for decades and intend so stay there until they die so prices don't impact them at all. Instead they are concerned about quality of life issues: traffic, parking, noise, petty crime.
pj_mukh 2 hours ago||||
“Making housing affordable by definition means driving down prices.”

This is not true.

Not that it matters as I don’t think this is what motivates NIMBY’s but for anyone reading that believes so, this is incorrect.

The old single family home next to the new apartment building gains land value. And this shows up county after county [1]. Building more housing is a valuation win-win, the pie just grows.

[1] https://gardner.utah.edu/news/recent-apartment-construction-...

inglor_cz 6 minutes ago||||
IDK if things are fundamentally different in Czechia, but I talked to a lot of Czech NIMBYs and they almost never mention home prices. What they usually obsess about is change in a neighborhood that they are used to and want to keep intact. The resentment against new people and new buildings is just palpable, even if the newcomers would be solid middle class.

Noise and dust from construction are often mentioned as well. Construction means heavy trucks entering places where they usually don't intrude.

win311fwg 3 hours ago|||
> But existing homeowners don't like to see their home prices go down!

As a homeowner I don't want to see my home price go down relative to all other homes as that leaves me in a precious position if I need to move, but if all homes fall in price together then that actually makes the prospect of moving less risky as, if I have to move into a house that is a step-up from the one I have, the cost to do so is lower. That would be an improvement over the status quo. High housing prices are a problem even for those with significant equity in a home.

But who doesn't want to see their wage go down is those who build houses. This is the bottleneck. The vast majority of people cannot afford a new house, which means they're stuck in their used houses, which means there is no inventory opening up for those with no houses.

> it's just that the solutions are deeply unpopular.

Is it? The solution in motion is to use AI to push software developers out of software development so that they have to become construction workers, thereby increasing the supply of construction workers, pushing construction wages down. It doesn't seem that unpopular (at least not outside of HN, but even on HN many welcome it with open arms). Maybe it will become unpopular once the motions are complete? That's a tad bit late, though.

rayiner 3 hours ago||||
The share of income people spend on housing has been very stable over 40 years: https://economistwritingeveryday.com/2023/04/26/spending-on-...

The problem isn't so much that housing has gotten expensive. It's that many of the existing places have moved up-market compared to what they were 30-40 years ago. 75 years ago, Scarsdale NY or parts of Long Island were expensive. But Palo Alto was a drab middle class suburb. As the tech economy has boomed, that has driven prices up in Palo Alto for the same reason they were already high in Scarsdale. And now you have to move to Gilroy.

AnthonyMouse 59 minutes ago|||
> The share of income people spend on housing has been very stable over 40 years

That's a misleading metric for two reasons. First, "people" includes all the people who bought a house decades ago before the prices went up, and correspondingly paid the old prices instead of the current prices. And second, it assumes that if housing becomes more expensive what people all do is pay more for housing rather than being unable to afford it and then having to take a longer commute to access housing they can afford, live with their parents, become homeless, etc., which negatively impact the amount or type of housing they get instead of the amount they pay for it.

Meanwhile between 1984 and today median income increased by ~290% while median new home prices increased by ~425%:

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MSPUS https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA646N

And that's with the gap having reduced a bit in the last couple of years, since home prices have declined slightly since the peak in 2022 while median income continued its usual trend.

pj_mukh 2 hours ago||||
Fighter planes coming back with holes must mean the parts with the holes are the ones that need reinforcing.gif

People are moving out of opportunity zones (and you know…losing opportunity) or moving in with roommates to keep the average percentage low.

Feels like such a basic factor to miss for what is supposedly an economists blog. That metric means nothing.

rectang 58 minutes ago|||
That stability claim is an average for all American households, gathering together high-income households and long-tenure homeowners along with poor renters. But in a K-shaped economy where the wealthy do well and the rest do worse, averaging the two forks of the K hides the hardship of those on the lower fork.

From https://www.jchs.harvard.edu/blog/rental-housing-unaffordabi...

> The net effect of this longer history is that renters today spend much more of their incomes on rent than they did in previous generations. The median renter household in 1960 spent less than a fifth of their income on rent. By 2022, housing costs consumed 31 percent of the median renter’s income. And in inflation-adjusted terms, the median rent is up 75 percent over these six decades while the median renter income has risen by just under 15 percent.

infinite_spin 5 hours ago||||
a friend showed me their budget recently, and about 45 hours of their wages go to rent each month (for a single room in a house with roommates). That seems very high to me, and their rent is considered "low" in their area (a small suburb)
zdragnar 4 hours ago|||
Assuming they work full time, that is pretty average. The old "30%" rule is that you should spend no more than 30% of your pre-tax wages on rent. Your friend is spending just over a quarter post-taxes.
ijooz 3 hours ago||
[flagged]
Barbing 3 hours ago||
Hobbies can help avoid thinking about religion when it’s not on anyone’s mind!
SirMaster 2 hours ago|||
That seems high. 14 hours of my salary (pretax) goes to my rent.
socalgal2 4 hours ago|||
That’s another bad metric without more nuance. if I used to pay 30% and now pay 50% but the remaining 50% buys 2x what it used to then overall I’m still doing better

I’m not saying that’s the case. I’m only saying the metric “housing cost as percent of wages” isn’t enough to judge if people are doing worse or better

To take just one example: a 65inch tv costs just $700 compared to $4k just a few years ago

ethersteeds 2 hours ago||
You are right, I'll just eat a 65 inch TV and live in the box.
darth_avocado 5 hours ago||||
1. PCE tracks spending by and on behalf of households, including employer-paid health insurance and government-funded medical programs like Medicare. Arguably this does not reflect out-of-pocket costs or the immediate cash-flow reality experienced by a regular household.

2. Shelter accounts for roughly 34% of the CPI, whereas it makes up only about 16% to 17% of the PCE which underplays the pressures of housing people face. Housing arguably is one of the most basic necessity and people will spend on it. For majority of the people in the country housing as a % of income is the biggest expense, so weighing it at 16% sounds almost ridiculous.

3. PCE also famously isn’t based on household surveys like CPI which means it doesn’t accurately represent the actual inflation either.

4. PCE also doesn’t accurately represent lifestyle downgrades even though it tracks them. PCE will capture if you swap chicken for beef (like people are doing right now) but the conclusion you’ll come to is that people have the same amount of spending power as before.

jparishy 6 hours ago||||
Hey thanks for posting this perspective w/ the link. Fun rabbit hole to go down stuck in a hotel tonight. I wonder if you think something explanatory is missing in _all_ of these different indices, in the "where there's smoke, there's fire" sense of economic anxiety on display today
rayiner 3 hours ago||
The sense of economic anxiety is due to increasing economic efficiency and sorting. It's not that the cost of living somewhere has gone up as much as people think. It's that the market is efficiently allocating housing in the place you grew up, near your parents, family, and friends, to Google and Facebook engineers. But you can still get a house twice as big as what your parents had at your age in a new subdivision in Tennessee.
openasocket 5 hours ago||||
I’m not necessarily disputing your point, but it’s very odd to downplay one source for potential bias, and then follow up with a study from the CATO Institute. Like, the CATO institute is openly a libertarian think tank founded by one of the Koch brothers.

I also think it’s unfair to look at just food prices. Housing and healthcare have bloomed massively.

manlymuppet 5 hours ago|||
Of course you’re right. Food isn’t the whole picture, and no think tank is perfect.

We should evaluate research by the research itself, rather than by the author’s subjectivity credibility alone. The is the point I was trying to make by providing alternative research and adding a little bit of nuance to the reply, but perhaps I should’ve been more forthright in addressing my own bias as well.

solomonb 1 hour ago||
> We should evaluate research by the research itself

Why is this the argument when someone challenges your source, but when it comes to someone else's source your argument is:

> This is research from a labor advocacy group, with the explicit aim of the organization to advocate for this sort of thing. This doesn't mean the research is is automatically invalid, but it is bias worth mentioning.

intended 3 hours ago|||
Yeah, CATO is … not what I would reach for to make a point on neutrality.
rayiner 3 hours ago||
Who is neutral in your opinion?
intended 2 hours ago|||
On this topic? I would have to check. R/badeconomics ? R1 means that its impenetrable to average pontification. The Fed data is neutral.

Using CATO as a neutral source though, is sketch no matter what.

rpcope1 5 hours ago|||
> calls a labor advocacy group biased

> Links the fucking CATO institute

Pot, meet kettle

chorsestudios 6 hours ago||||
They do have more money, less spending power.
vkou 47 minutes ago||||
People lack money, but a Netflix (or some other streaming) subscription is a very cheap way to buy a lot of entertainment, and just about everyone has at least one.
JumpCrisscross 4 hours ago||||
> Meanwhile household basics increased faster than wages

Not what real means!

Gibbon1 4 hours ago|||
I first saw the claim everything is hunky dory because workers are working fewer hours from a economist probably ten years ago. The idea is workers are choosing to work fewer hours and instead enjoy more leisure.

So to point out how inanely out of touch economists are.

The problem with that is the worker economic base unit is a family not one person. Now compare 1960-70s where one person in the household works 40 hours a week. Compare with a modern family where both parents are working a combined 70-80 hours a week.

So yeah workers are working slightly less hours and families as a unit substantially more.

constant_flux 6 hours ago||||
I don't find either of these charts dispositive by themselves. The cost of healthcare, education, housing, transportation, and insurance have easily outpaced any growth in wages. Another facet of this debate is that cheaper goods aren't necessarily of equal or better quality.

> Of course they do.

That level of certainty is not justified.

HDThoreaun 4 hours ago||
[dead]
rectang 6 hours ago||||
> the average number of hours worked per worker have fallen

Hooray for just-in-time scheduling where workers have to be available full time but rarely get scheduled full time. It’s an innovation that has been great for capital and terrible for labor.

matt_heimer 5 hours ago||
Yep, keep everyone part-time so they don't get benefits.
groundzeros2015 5 hours ago||
which is in unintended but predictable side effect of requiring those benefits for full-time employees.
kraken_cult 5 hours ago||
shakes fist at sky "if only we didn't have to pay those pesky benefits then we wouldn't be forced to make the roles abusive contractor/part-time roles...Wild people even try to take this stance.
groundzeros2015 4 hours ago||
I'm baffled. Do you not see the normative vs descriptive claim here?

The reality is that requiring benefits imposes a cost, and employers manage that cost by limiting who qualifies. So yes, this hurt many workers - and disproportionately impacted disadvantaged people who didn't make the full-time cliff.

Ignoring increntives is actually shaking your fist at the sky.

rectang 4 hours ago||
Then can we agree on a government funded safety net for the sake of labor mobility? ;)

Typically the real disagreement here is over whether workers should get benefits at all.

EDIT: can we get another `vouch` or two for groundzeros2015's currently [dead] reply? It's well-argued and an olive branch and deserves to be visible.

groundzeros2015 4 hours ago||
I do agree. A government funded benefit is an explicit tax and spend. A mandate to provide a benefit is a hidden tax where it's not clear who is paying.
omgwtfbyobbq 5 hours ago||||
The CPI has gone up far faster than real wages.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CPIAUCSL

People are earning about 12% more and working about 5% less since 1980, but everything costs roughly 3x what it did in 1980 relative to wages, and that's where most people are pinched.

jacobolus 2 hours ago|||
Real wages are inflation adjusted. So if everything costs 336% of what it did in 1980, and the real ages are 112% of what they were, then that means nominal wages are 376% of what they were.
QuesnayJr 2 hours ago|||
It doesn't make sense to compare CPI to real wages. Real wages are wages divided by CPI or another inflation index.
jparishy 6 hours ago||||
Upvote for bringing data, since I did not. That said, that quote was in reference to AI, so referred to the past 3-4 years. And of course, our money today is not worth as much as it was 20+ years ago. Also many important goods and services increased in price at a higher rate than inflation or wage increases. It might be interesting to look at such industries for a history of consolidation or PE-involvement.
manlymuppet 6 hours ago|||
The data by the Fed linked above is inflation adjusted.
jparishy 6 hours ago||
I realized after, yeah, thanks for calling out though.
manlymuppet 5 hours ago||
You are welcome. Though seeing your overwhelming openness and good nature in the rest of this thread, I now feel some regret in how I replied to you here.

I addressed but one of your points here and ignored essentially the rest of your reply. A rather myopic one sentence reply to a more nuanced comment.

Sorry to sink to the lowest common denominator, friend. Thank you for making me see this.

derektank 6 hours ago|||
For what it's worth, I thought the rest of your comment was a very accurate description of how labor and capital are reallocated within an industry. The question is simply whether it's a bad thing that Hollywood studios have decamped for Atlanta and Toronto. For the people working in LA that don't want to move, I'm sure the answer is yes. But on net, I think it's probably meant more and better work for more people in general.
jparishy 6 hours ago||
I really appreciate your perspective. Mine is definitely malleable on these topics; they're complicated and I'm not an economist.

re: regular people and their money, I will say, something about the bigger picture just feels off. I look at the graphs you linked to, and do not see it reflected in the people around me. I don't mean to be dismissive of the data, more that I feel like I am missing something, or it is, if that makes sense?

rectang 5 hours ago||
Since the 1980s, the wealthy have done fantastic while the rest have not done nearly as well. The argument from CATO and others is that we should be content with the majority of households taking home a shrinking share of an increasing pie so long as their absolute purchasing power isn’t decreasing, but that argument feels wrong in part because it’s human nature to measure status relative to others rather than in absolute terms.

Furthermore, wealth applies more pressure against certain costs like housing[1] than against others like food or durable goods. Cheap toasters only go so far in making people feel like they aren’t falling behind.

[1] https://www.jchs.harvard.edu/blog/home-prices-surge-five-tim...

yoyohello13 5 hours ago||
This seems to be a common argument essentially “If a rich guy get $1000 and as a result I get $10, then I shouldn’t complain because I got $10” but this glosses over the fact that money is a proxy for power. The rich guy got more power over resources from this deal. Over the years this leads to more power inequality which is bad because now the rich guy can start doing other things to me and I have no recourse.
rectang 4 hours ago||
I agree, but I don't think many wealthy people are open to that perspective. Many seem to credit themselves with having created an environment where everyone's lot is improving in absolute terms, and don't see anything wrong with accumulating outsized relative power for themselves.

The reluctance to give up resources also an understandable aspect of human nature, but power concentration in the hands of the few is always problematic. I'm very much a capitalist but the last few decades have persuaded me that wealth taxes are a necessary and moral correction to capitalism's unfortunate spiraling acceleration of inequality.

yoyohello13 4 hours ago||
It’s a difficult conversation to have because critiquing the wealth accumulation tends to get you shouted down as a communist. I’m a believer in capitalism as well but our current system has produced people that are so wealthy they are effectively above the law. Some limit on wealth accumulation really needs to happen.
rectang 3 hours ago||
To escape the "communist" critique, I think it's worthwhile to grapple with opposing all concentration of power, whether private or public, governmental or corporate.

For instance: marketplace competition requires some regulation, but recognizing that regulation is a necessary evil with many opportunities for abuse (e.g. regulatory capture) helps inoculate against socialism's worst excesses.

stonogo 6 hours ago||||
Nicely sliced. Weekly wages for full time workers have been rising for decades while fewer workers work full time. I don't think this data backs your assertion.
derektank 6 hours ago|||
The number of full time workers as a percent of the total employees has gone from roughly 84% (rounding up) in 1979 to roughly 82% (rounding down) today. There was a spike in people working part time in the wake of the GFC, but we've returned to trend.

Also, I chose weekly wages because annual wages are complicated by time off, which was the other item in question.

manlymuppet 6 hours ago|||
Something like 80% of workers are full time.
scotty79 6 hours ago||||
25% increase in half a century? We ahd like 3 technological revolutions since then and economy grew massively.

Compare that to how much wealth appreciated, like a price of gold or real estate.

Median real wages increased by the narrowest possible meaning of this word.

Trickle down economy is literally a trickle.

steele 5 hours ago|||
Boomers gonna boom
segmondy 7 hours ago|||
Why? AI is taking jobs. getty images just filed bankruptcy, stackoverflow went from heavy use to almost no use. AI is taking jobs, tipping toeing around it isn't the best thing. It needs to be said, and then what next needs to be figured out because first we talk about 200k jobs, then we will next talk about 2 million and then 20million
jasomill 5 hours ago|||
Or not. Significant shifts in the nature of emplyoment are undoubtably disruptive, but there's no particular reason to believe this one will result in mass unemployment any more than previous shifts have done so.

Especially if we're talking about jobs in creative industries that require customers with the means to support and consume their output.

Besides, an overabundance of surplus labor, if properly managed, is as likely to lead to a better world than a worse one. There's no ironclad rule that everyone, or even the majority, need to work to live or live to work to be happy. And many creatives, in particular, would be happy and productive working on personal and noncommercial projects if funding were no longer an issue.

intended 3 hours ago|||
A surplus of labor, by definition, reduces the value of labor. Most people are labor, so this means their earning potential is reduced, which means their social mobility, ability to take care of themselves, is reduced.

When you consider that this conversation assumes we are talking about the US and not the rest of the world? It is sobering.

The AI bet hinges entirely on the new types of work that arise from it.

rewgs 4 hours ago|||
> there's no particular reason to believe this one will result in mass unemployment any more than previous shifts have done so.

Of course there is. Permanently replacing labor is quite obviously and quite literally the point of AI. No previous tech shifts are comparable.

ssl-3 3 hours ago||
> No previous tech shifts are comparable.

That's why the tall bank buildings that dot ~every small town (and plenty of big ones) in the US are full of bankers tending to paper ledgers, and with a secretary in front of every office. We still get milk delivered every day, as well as a block of river ice from last winter every 2 or 3 days (or more often if it's been particularly hot). We dig our ditches by hand, with hand-made shovels and pickaxes. The material for the clothes on our backs was woven on manual looms, from cotton that was harvested by hand, and carded by hand, and spun into thread by hand. We wear them in homes made with iron nails that were cut by hand, from ores that were mined by hand and smelted the only way we know how: With charcoal, in clay furnaces that were made with hands and that are stoked by hand.

rewgs 3 hours ago||
Very glib, but you're missing my point.
aeon_ai 2 hours ago|||
No, you're missing his.

Technology progresses. You're playing to an end-state of AI that assumes labor disappears entirely because you have yet to see what the new labor system looks like.

devsda 3 hours ago||||
> AI is taking jobs, tipping toeing around it isn't the best thing. It needs to be said, and then what next needs to be figured out

If we think about it, AI can be seen as dumping cheap products below cost and disrupting the domestic market.

I mean the real cost of production is unknown due to skirting of copyright laws in many cases and even if we discount that, it is well known that AI is being pushed far below the actual costs for providers. There are disruptive technologies, yes but this is not the same if the real cost is hidden or deferred and it doesn't compare with horses/cars or whatever analogy that comes up often.

In the physical world, this is called dumping isn't it? Just because tech is involved it doesn't change the fact. Countries already have anti dumping laws.

echelon 6 hours ago||||
I live in Atlanta ("y'allywood"), a formerly big LA film outsourcing location. They shot much of Marvel and Netflix stuff here pre-2023. The unit below me has been rented to Winona Ryder and Dave Bautista.

Beyond that, my hobby is film and I know tons of people in the industry. I've made indie films with them.

All the jobs have gone to Europe. It's simply cheaper to film there now. Amazon and Netflix built infrastructure and taught local crews how during the pandemic content wars.

Looking at my Gen Z wife, all the eyeballs have gone to TikTok.

There's the answer.

sizzle 1 hour ago|||
How much vfx is being done by AI video editing software/ massive gpu clusters over previous locally employed vfx studio artists? Maybe I’m thinking about this wrong but isn’t the compute/AI vfx models now reducing the amount of humans needed to edit things like Marvel character’s special effects scenes, etc?
otterley 6 hours ago||||
That’s really good insight! The graph only includes US employment. To see global employment instead would be enlightening.
someguydave 6 hours ago||||
yes and also movies have gotten worse (more poorly written)
bruce511 4 hours ago|||
They haven't really, it just seems like it, and for that you can blame better distribution.

When I was growing up movies were watched in cinemas. It was a big event and we saw maybe 5 a year.

Over time more start appearing on TV, but those tended to be a bit older, but also cherry picked the good ones. (I don't live in the US).

PayTV didn't appear until mid 80s. They had more movies, but again tended to cherry pick. VHS meant we recorded the ones we wanted to see. All these things together meant we tended to watch "good" movies.

Hollywood of course were making lots and lots of movies we never saw, or had and way to see. The bad stuff simply didn't have a channel to the world.

The arrival of Video Stores changed that. Suddenly the mediocre (and worse) had an outlet. And trust me, there was plenty of rubbish in there. But there was still a cost to distribute.

Today, distribution cost is zero. If Netflix commission a movie it'll get onto Netflix. Regardless of the result. Some really good stuff, most mediocre, lots of real rubbish.

Repeat for Amazon, Disney, Hulu, et al.

Overall movies haven't gotten worse. Objectively production values are higher. But your access to mediocre and bad movies has increased.

Judging past output though introduces survivor bias, which in turn makes comparison to today misleading.

rightbyte 25 minutes ago||
No way. It is not sampling bias. Big budget movies have gotten worse script wise compared to the 90s and 00s.

The scene workers have gotten better though. And there are a lot of good movies being made still, but not by the mainstream industry that used to really deliver.

WalterBright 4 hours ago|||
People don't usually re-run the bad stuff from years ago.
jasomill 5 hours ago||||
These are far more plausible explanations. AI can no doubt bring certain efficiencies, but for the most part consumers seem to be squarely rejecting primarily AI-generated creative output.
nradov 5 hours ago|||
It's crazy how California and the LA area local governments killed their "golden goose" by driving out the film industry. I guess progressives can't stop themselves from doing that, but it's always sad to see.
throwaway2037 27 minutes ago|||
They didn't kill the golden goose. Other places implemented tax benefits to encourage film making. That is why so much filming is done in Canada, New Zealand, and various Central European nations. If anything, the golden goose flew away. As a counterpoint: What do you think California and LA area local gov'ts should have done differently?
gedy 5 hours ago|||
I’m not a fan of many progressive causes, but this is absolutely more an issue with globalization and easy ability to move jobs overseas to cheaper areas.
jasomill 4 hours ago||
Absolutely, along with the rise in popularity in unscripted and nonprofessional content due to non-AI technologies drastically lowering the cost floor for production and distribution. AI will no doubt contribute to these trends, but I suspect its impact will be more evolutionary than revolutionary.
blltprfmnk 6 hours ago||||
Economists keep saying over and over that so far AI has had minimal impact on the economy. That may change in time, but we aren’t seeing massive losses as a result of AI, despite some C suites using that as an excuse to lay off after over hiring.

https://siepr.stanford.edu/publications/policy-brief/what-re...

shruggedatlas 6 hours ago|||
This is my first time seeing this publication. It was insightful -- thank you for sharing.
esafak 6 hours ago||||
Change comes slowly, then all at once.
jasomill 4 hours ago|||
Sometimes. And often in unanticipated directions.
card_zero 6 hours ago|||
So for instance like if AI becomes slowly less relevant, then is discarded all at once. Change will be surprising! That much is likely.
groundzeros2015 5 hours ago|||
I'm a pretty big AI skeptic, but can't get behind this comment.

It is changing the economy. It is changing how work is done. We are not going back, even if the emphasis in the workplace and role it performs matures.

adrianN 5 hours ago|||
I'm still patiently waiting for this whole "Internet" thing to become less relevant too. It surely is just a fad with no economic benefits.
georgemcbay 6 hours ago||||
> Economists keep saying over and over that so far AI has had minimal impact on the economy.

Economists (including but not limited to Alan Greenspan, Robert Rubin, Larry Summers and Arthur Levitt) also spent a decade arguing against Brooksley Born's 1998 warnings that unregulated over-the-counter derivatives would inevitably lead to a financial crisis.

Economists can be spectacularly wrong and short-sighted (and blinded by prior assumptions of how things work) until suddenly the thing that should have been obvious the whole time is no longer ignorable.

jasomill 5 hours ago||
True. But it's also true that "the thing that should have been obvious the whole time" may turn out not to be so obvious after all. For example, the inevitability of poor working conditions leading to a worldwide socialist revolution and the collapse of capitalism.
WalterBright 4 hours ago||
The economies that have collapsed are the socialist ones.
rylando 6 hours ago|||
Breaking news, frog in pot says water isn’t too hot yet
icantevenhold 6 hours ago|||
Maybe a lot of people worked at stackoverflow idk; but I have been organising electronic “underground” music nights for 15+ years and basically stopped now because there just wasn’t a big enough audience anymore.

Anyway what I’m trying to say is that I think COVID and its aftermath is a much bigger factor here than AI, especially when it comes to “live / performing” art

derekdahmer 5 hours ago|||
To use your example of the movie industry, everyone gets the benefits of the effiency gains.

There's twice as many scripted shows today and twice as many movies released despite the average person spending half the time they did 30 years ago watching TV and movies. For less than the price of a 1990s cable tv subscription we can access almost any movie, instantly streamed to our HDR TVs at home, on demand. The digital VFX we expect of a low tier direct to streaming show are better than the some of the best 90s movies (practical effects excluded).

There are hundreds of thousands of people across the world using the 4k camera in their pocket they bought for a few hundred dollars to make hyper specific media and distributing it free on YouTube. They are editing it in cheap or free video editors on their computer or built in to their phone.

It's easy to shit on modern media. With democratization comes slop. There's garbage now just like there was before. But we are absolutely benefitting off the efficency gains of the last few decades.

groundzeros2015 5 hours ago|||
Modern technology makes distribution free, so then you need to compete on brand and quality.

Outsourcing seems extremely short-sighted in this environment. You're devaluing your brand, and giving expertise and training to another place that can make their own products.

I also wonder how much can be attributed to weakened intellectual property protection. Comments in this thread say they don't pay for anything because they can watch it all for free.

BLKNSLVR 7 hours ago|||
Offshoring of manufacturing to China is the analogy that springs to mind for me.
bradknowles 3 hours ago|||
Rhythm and Hues (Oscar award winner for “Life of Pi”) was killed because it was cheaper to move that work offshore.

Sure, we can blame AI for a lot of crimes, but let’s start with the people who offshore everything first. Then when those offshore people get fired because of AI, you don’t feel so bad because it’s not like you’re firing anyone or killing any companies in the same country, right?

At the end of the day, what is the functional difference between offshoring and AI? People in this country still get fired and can’t find work, because the work is no longer done in this country. And then later, much of this work is no longer done by humans in any country.

Profits über alles.

timr 5 hours ago|||
> I liked this article. I appreciate that it didn't try to say it is or isn't AI.

...because nothing in it supported the thesis?

Print and audio/video have been showing clear declines since the 90s, thanks to the death of print, CDs and cable. Maybe AI is part of this, maybe not, but if it is, we're talking about a slight change in slope. These industries were walking dead before CNNs were a thing.

The one industry where you'd expect to see the clearest impact (coding) is basically flat.

hn_throwaway_99 4 hours ago|||
FWIW, there was a very good recent NY Times opinion piece titled "I Teach at a Business School. It's Time to Shut Them Down." by a professor at the University of Cambridge business school who argues that these schools have solely promulgated this idea of "efficiency" as their primary output to the detriment of society at large. Worth a read if you're interested in the topic.
WalterBright 4 hours ago||
Consider "The Red Queen" by Ridley book. It's premise is that evolution constantly improves a species, but since other species also are improving, the species runs and runs but stays in the same place.

It's the same thing in business. One has to relentlessly decrease the cost of doing business, because your competitors are doing it as well. You run and run and stay in the same place.

I haven't read the cited article, but the professor would need to show that industry profit margins are increasing to make his point. I haven't seen any evidence that margins increased in general.

j45 7 hours ago|||
Efficiency could mean creating more with the same labour, not creating the same amount with less labour.
jparishy 6 hours ago||
Yes, it definitely can. That's sort of why I kept putting it in scarequotes. I am not skeptic of AI, fwiw. Mostly just our current crop of corpo/gov leadership and their views on what healthy economy looks like.
doctorpangloss 4 hours ago|||
look all the commenters here... this is a lot of words with way too much intellectualizing.

tv and movies killed radio and opera. and now tiktok is killing tv and movies. it's not complicated.

throwaway2037 21 minutes ago||
You raise a good point, but I would like to add more nuance. Traditional TV is largely displaced by YouTube (small content creators) and streaming (Netflix, etc.) Traditional film has moved nearly entirely to streaming, but there is more of it now than ever before. TikTok is something truly generational to me. Just like Instagram largely killed the blog because it allowed normies to watch the amazing lives of the top 5%. TikTok allows young people (mostly women) to gossip faster than ever before.
nradov 5 hours ago|||
The legacy media industry had a huge amount of fat and inefficiency, lots of people sitting around pretending to work. Joe Rogan produces a top podcast that pulls a larger audience than the vast majority of TV shows, and does everything with about 5 employees. Regardless of what you think of him personally or the podcast content, that is amazing efficiency. And he started it before LLMs were even a thing.
jasomill 5 hours ago|||
While I suspect you're not wrong about either inefficiency in large, well-funded media organziations or the efficiency of Rogan's operation, comparing his podcast to anything but a substantially similar TV show is hardly a fair comparison. Even a relatively low-budget scripted TV series is going to require a cast, writers, props, sets, costumes, hair and makeup, lighting, camera work, craft services, transportation, significantly more editing and postproduction, the list goes on, plus directors and producers and administrative personnel to manage all of this.
nradov 4 hours ago||
And that's exactly the point. It is unfair. TV shows and podcasts are both competing for the same audience, and yet the podcast can do it an order of magnitude cheaper.
rewgs 4 hours ago||
> TV shows and podcasts are both competing for the same audience.

If by "audience" you mean "people," sure, but I don't think that's particularly meaninful. I don't think I'm alone in thinking that podcasts and TV shows aren't even kind of comparable or able to replace one another.

simonra 1 hour ago||
Wouldn't "audience" and "people" both just be a proxy for "time" though?
arusahni 5 hours ago|||
That's not necessarily an apples-to-apples comparison. The inputs for an unscripted podcast are vastly different from a scripted TV show. They're different mediums for expression, and each carries different costs.
brightball 2 hours ago||
I can’t speak to everyone, but grok bot is helping me gain so much efficiency in managing all of the things that I have going on in my life that I feel much more present now.

Before I’d always feel distracted by things weighing on me that I needed to get done. Now a huge load of those things are asked of grok bot quickly, then I close the laptop and go spend time where I should be.

It feels like it’s lifting a huge burden from my daily life.

sjdh76 7 hours ago||
Before AI showed up the UN released a report on the Attention Economy. It said Supply of content had vastly outstripped Demand. It decoupled because entertainment/media was being used to push other products. The telcos, amazon, google/fb and many others were all subsidizing content to push some other product. Exploding info chasing finite non growing eyeballs and time.
jubilee33 7 hours ago||
Creative content will become more personal and less profitable, art being some sort of commercial enterprise is a relative new phenomenon, we will survive without it. Most artists will have to generate income by performance or physical creation, just like it has been for the whole time before it was commoditized to feed the "attention economy"

What a gross and completly apt terminology for the commoditization of art from the bureaucrats by the way.

Gigachad 7 hours ago|||
I'm looking at gaming these days and there's such an endless selection of excellent games I'd love to play. But there are far more great games than I have time to play. So when I see stuff like using AI to make games faster, I can only think what is the point, The market won't buy or play more games so something else has to give.
xpct 6 hours ago|||
I feel completely the opposite. Mind, I play games a fair bit, but I generally don't feel that excited about most, and I'd say a lot of them have very repetitive tropes. I'm generally in the market for 30h+ spent on a game, so that filters out a lot of the more trendy stuff.
Gigachad 5 hours ago||
That sounds more like you are burned out on gaming in general. I don’t think infinite AI slop games would help here.
indrex 1 hour ago||
It could be much better games too developed using AI assistance. Just saying, using AI is not necessarily slop.
asdff 4 hours ago||||
Online games though you pretty much have to follow the herds to the newest titles. You could stick around but it usually isn't pretty: tough to find full lobbies or full of sweats or both.
honeycrispy 7 hours ago||||
I started building a game on a custom engine a few years ago and I used to think about selling it, but nowadays the market is so oversaturated I tend to think of it as nothing more than a coding exercise.
stopsayingsorry 7 hours ago||||
"there's such an endless selection of excellent games"

If you have 0 standards.

satvikpendem 7 hours ago|||
There are more games at any standard than one's lifetime to play them in.
stopsayingsorry 6 hours ago|||
Nonsense.

Even if you take an old established media, like literature, you can trivially read all the classics by the time you are 30.

Saying that about gaming industry, which is barely 50 year old, is a joke.

One can only say that when they no idea what "high standards" actually means.

retsibsi 46 minutes ago|||
> literature, you can trivially read all the classics by the time you are 30

I don't think this is true, at least not for an ordinary person, unless you're dedicating your life to it (hardly trivial) or ploughing your way through for the sake of completion rather than absorbing them intellectually and emotionally. Writers like Joyce can be difficult to even parse if you're trying to read their work quickly, and to truly understand it you'll probably need to engage with secondary sources. And then there's the likes of Proust, which aren't exactly difficult to read but are extremely long (and probably won't do much for you unless you take your time with them). There's no objectively valid set of 'classics' but we're talking about certainly hundreds and arguably thousands of books. A book a week every single week from the age of 15-30 would do it if we're taking about a medium-sized set of classics...

Marsymars 5 hours ago||||
Hey, I actually have "played all the classics" for some definition of the term.

Some time ago I started playing all the games that to me felt worthwhile to play in roughly chronological order.

I think the project is overall quite different than "reading all the classics" though - a lot of old games have aged pretty poorly so I can either skip them or abandon after giving them a fair shot.

I'm currently roughly in the 2000-2010 era of games. (It's not pure chronological, because I tend to sort play order by console, then by series, then by year.)

lelandbatey 4 hours ago||||
Games unlike books can have depth in duration of playing. While possible to play a game for 500 hours and feel very different about it on hour 501 vs 51, while books (usually) do not deliver such a feeling. Thus "playing all the classics" has much more dimensionality and as a result, requires much more time than just literally playing it once through and being done.
otterley 6 hours ago|||
[flagged]
echelon 7 hours ago|||
Nothing meets my standards. Nothing.

No film, no music, no game.

There's good, but there is no truly magnificent to the level I burst into tears and see the face of God.

Come on people. Your standards are too low.

stopsayingsorry 7 hours ago|||
The solution to that is not to continue to seek consumption, but starting creation. Your consumption phase is done.

Producing things of value takes a lot of time and effort, you would be too busy to waste time lamenting about things outside of your control.

jamesdftx 5 hours ago||
Thank you for this comment. I myself just got into vibe coding a few projects and anecdotally I've never been more excited about the future barring the economic implications of a world more reliant on AI. It feels as if the parent comment should take your recommendation to heart and start creating!!!
card_zero 6 hours ago||||
Everybody is maliciously taking you seriously :D

Hang in there! It gets better!

whoanoway 6 hours ago||
[dead]
azan_ 7 hours ago||||
Listen to Bach, if that doesn’t work then your standards are not high but completely wrong.
ofjcihen 6 hours ago|||
Honestly sounds like you’re just depressed. I don’t even mean that in a mean way.
echelon 4 hours ago||
I think I've just got a bigger imagination than the kind of people who can sit down to enjoy Netflix.

Anybody with a big imagination must feel trapped by mediocre content. Daydreams are often more enjoyable.

wvenable 7 hours ago|||
There are roughly 50-70 new games released on Steam every day. I think there's pretty good review metrics available that you can assume 2-5% of those could be categorized as "Excellent". So that's around 1–3 excellent new games per day on just one platform.

Even if we're over-estimating "excellent" by a lot, that's still more games that anyone can reasonably play.

stopsayingsorry 6 hours ago|||
>There are roughly 50-70 new games released on Steam every day.

Ever bothered to actually go through the "all new releases" list on steam and actually check each new release? You should try it.

99% of "stuff" there is worthless trash, think 0 effort assetflip, which is never going to make $100 steam tax back. 1% is barely passable, as in "not a blatant insult to consumer". Unique stuff worth playing is extremely rare, if you're not 7 years old and you played more than a couple of games in your life of course.

wvenable 4 hours ago||
Even if another game was never released ever again, you could still find enough fantastic games to last a lifetime.
skeptic_ai 6 hours ago|||
What’s excellent released today? Nothing interesting the whole week: https://steamdb.info/upcoming/?lastweek=&sort=rating_desc
johnnyanmac 4 hours ago||
just clicking on your link: Final Fantasy Resonance would likely be regarded as "excellent". If you're a fan of RPGs.

But I suppose that's part of the problem with all media. We have more media than ever, so tastes get more divserse. This can consequently be bad for "cultural" purposes because you can meet 1000 people and struggle to find more than 2 who like the kinds of games or movies you watch regularly. So you instead default back 20 years ago to The Wire or Sopranos or The Dark Knight Rises, etc. Around the last time we have "mass culture". or Sports.

For gaming, GTA VI will be an interesting time, even if I don't personally care for the series. Because that may be the first time since perhaps Pokemon GO where you have so many subgroups of gaming aligning together for a single release.

skydhash 7 hours ago|||
Same thing here. I gave up on gaming all together because my library grew too much. As a kid, I didn’t even own a console, I had to borrow gameboy or go to my friend house and even then it was just an handful of cartridges. Even now, I plan to just focus on small sample of programming languages and ecosystems, and learn them inside out. There’s just too much stuff out there.
WalterBright 4 hours ago|||
> As a kid, I didn’t even own a console

As a kid, I played games with a board and counters. Sometimes I made my own board and counters. And there was only one channel on the B+W TV.

hparadiz 6 hours ago|||
Same thing with books but no one says to stop writing.
rixed 1 hour ago|||
Could you give any hint about the title/authors/year of this report that would allow me to find it?
WalterBright 4 hours ago|||
Haha, look at the old B+W Perry Mason TV episodes. He drives all kinds of different cars. Those cars were definitely product placements.
999900000999 5 hours ago|||
It's also very easy to make high quality content. You can record a professional album with 5000$ in gear. Live instruments and all.

You can make your album accessible to every human on earth for free.

So my Instagram is full of very very high quality music, much of it I'll only listen to once.

Music from all over the world.

Its great.

Yet sad. So much music I'll never get to. I have to spend 40 to 50 hours a week generating income. If only I did better on that Meta interview way back.

I'd be retired now, free to indulge in endless entertainment.

nradov 5 hours ago||
I guess preferences vary, but the idea of spending my retirement consuming "content" seems like a type of hell.
999900000999 5 hours ago||
Just this summer I went to concerts in 3 different countries.

I also want to make games and music. Open source everything after 5 years. Honest games you buy once and self host forever.

echelon 7 hours ago||
There is infinite demand for content (to the limit that human attention can absorb it).

Most content sucks ass. What may appear to be bountiful content is actually a lot of okay and meh content. Very little of it fits to your actual taste preference. It's a whole lot of mediocre. We as humans do not know what plentiful content looks like. We've never lived in it.

Most movies suck. You doomscroll and are dissatisfied. You refresh your media recommendations and sigh. You are excited to see a new fantasy or sci-fi film that scratches that itch, yet often left disappointed.

We are still in a desert. Anyone who says otherwise is settling for the status quo that our childen will call primitive and beastly.

Jobs are disappearing because cheap/free ad subsidized content attracts more eyeball hours than produced and prestige content. It's the optimal pareto frontier of content and does the most bang for buck, most in aggregate eyeball hours.

When the tools enable more creation at scale by tasteful creators, we'll start to get closer to content abundance. We're not there yet.

giovannibonetti 7 hours ago|||
> When the tools enable more creation at scale by tasteful creators, we'll start to get closer to content abundance. We're not there yet.

This reminds me of the comparison between Japanese manga and American comics/graphic novels. Some people say the former offer a much wider variety of content and ideas because it is often started by a single (often quirky) author, whereas the latter is usually designed by a committee, which ends up favoring more bland ideas. Anime usually starts of as manga, and that's why anime is so creative as well.

Perhaps AI will help single authors create more work by themselves, and we'll have a renaissance of comic books and other forms of (mostly digital) entertainment in the west. And we'll spend less time watching those TV shows on streaming platforms that follow the same few recipes.

intended 3 hours ago||
We are getting hammered by a massive increase in generation of content, and no change in our ability to consume content.

Understanding is a combination of consumption and reflection. There is simply not enough time to do so. This is driving a push towards content that is so simple to consume that it takes no effort.

Avicebron 7 hours ago||||
> There is infinite demand for content (to the limit that human attention can absorb it).

That limit is called time, which people struggling to get by rarely have. And the "most bang for buck, most in aggregate eyeball hours" is an extraordinarily mono-dimensional take on media and film.

echelon 7 hours ago||
> which people struggling to get by rarely have

The hate for technological advances is so strong that we're wanting... Entertainment austerity for poor people?

Oh my God.

This community needs more hope.

> extraordinarily mono-dimensional take on media and film.

You're telling this to someone who is Meisner-trained, who acts and performs, who has directed, shot lots of films, and who is heavily involved in the arts. A24 is my jam, and even that's not enough to sate me.

I sincerely hope this isn't a performance.

I want better. Both as a consumer and creator in the arts.

dualvariable 7 hours ago||||
> We are still in a desert.

It isn't exactly a desert? It is more like a full buffet, but nothing but cheap, mass-produced sugar literally everywhere. All the 2-star donuts and chocolate cupcakes you can eat, and nothing but that.

stopsayingsorry 7 hours ago||
A barn full of fodder for cattle would be a more fitting analogy.
PaulHoule 7 hours ago||||
I would look to the culture industry in Japan as an alternative to the gatekeeping-industrial complex we call Hollywood.

Hollywood's cost structure makes it impossible to try anything new. I'd contrast that to Japan where creators can write a "web novel", get a contract for a light novel, have a manga made, and then an anime, and maybe even some video games. And these all reinforce each other: last year I discovered an atrociously drawn anime that had got me curious about the source material -- that blew me away and I bought all of the printed materials that have come out so far and expect to buy all the rest.

Not least, Japan still gets new 4-panel comics like Bocci the Rock and The Demon Girl Next Door, something almost unthinkable of in the Land of the Nepo Baby where we haven't had a new one since Dilbert.

oidar 4 hours ago|||
I haven't investigated it much, but I imagine that LLMs have made it easier for japanese culture products to release products in English language. Is industry in Japan taking advantage of nearly free translation for it's print products?
xp84 6 hours ago|||
> Most movies suck

Most new ones do, but they've been making like a dozen great ones each year for for like 80 years.

Honestly TV (including the back catalogs) are where most of the truly good video content is.

> cheap/free ad subsidized content attracts more eyeball hours than produced and prestige content

This part I really agree with. It's the reason shitty Netflix reality shows are among the most popular 'watercooler discussion' shows today.

Animats 6 hours ago||
The real job losses are probably in commercial art. If you're making an illustration for an ad, that's almost certainly automated now. Looking at when the decline started, it's about when Stable Diffusion got going.

Some of this stuff is pre-AI, Photoshop smart tools stuff. Especially clothing ads. Nobody has a live model pose with each item color any more. Or even each item. (I used to know actress/model/waitress types in LA who did that. Grind job: "OK, the blue sweater is next, and hurry it up, we have 50 to do before lunch". But it paid OK.)

enzoaguado 14 minutes ago||
The article is well-written and well-informed, but it's hard to really see the impact of AI just by looking at the data. Even the author attributes most of the job losses to factors other than AI, and even when AI use in the industry is clearly discussed, it's hard to draw any clear connection to job losses.

Maybe we haven't had enough time to see the full impact, but right now, most job losses seem to be attributable to shifting consumption habits and a supply of content (both professional and amateur) that vastly outweighs demand.

999900000999 8 hours ago||
No one has any money and entertainment is the first thing you cut.

Every streaming service feels more and more user hostile. If I want to watch South Park it’s a 15$ a month subscription just for that .

Paramount Plus has nothing else.

I want to watch Lanterns, another 30$ a month.

Maybe King of The Hill , 20$ a month. The Reboot has this weird lazy animation style.

kaseijin 7 hours ago||
I just don't pay for it. If there's something I really wanna watch I might buy one month of the service binge it then cancel.

The streaming model has imho mostly killed old style television formats with the new way of hyping up a show in the first couple episodes by tossing money and talent, then leave people to hang with unsatisfying conclusions once you've got that sub money. It's all about convincing people to sign up and stay signed up with promises for new content. The quality of the content doesn't matter as long as there's a lot of it and it's enough to keep people from unsubscribing.

With traditional TV your value was directly determined by how many people were watching so you could sell addspace. And despite there being less choice and harder for independent players to get time, in some ways it was weirdly more democratic because if a show sucked or an episode sucked people would just change the channel or watch something else. With streaming they still do that but it's all in the same price scheme so doesn't hurt their bottom line. They're incentivised to just crank out as much crap as possible to keep subs up. Won't last.

skybrian 2 hours ago|||
In the US, there are a lot more rich people than there used to be [1] and they're often driving prices up because they can afford to pay. (Most obviously in real estate.)

[1] https://pages.skybrian.com/2026/us-households-by-income-band...

ajkjk 7 hours ago|||
and the content strangely sucks most of the time. like no one can write, edit, direct, or act anymore. Not always but strangely often.
seb1204 5 minutes ago|||
If it sucks the conclusion is to turn it off for me. Stopped most subscriptions.
999900000999 7 hours ago||||
Every thing is safe.

If certain ultra conservative countries don’t like LGBT representation they don’t get to be in your major movie.

At this point I don’t know the difference between Chat GPT writing the next marvel movie or Disney hiring someone. Either way the story needs to be crystal clear. You never watch something that makes you think.

asdff 4 hours ago||
They write now for an audience with no media literacy skills beyond good guy good, bad guy bad, and the HR department box check that you have every creed and color represented in the cast.
LPisGood 7 hours ago||||
I feel like this comment contrasted with the incredible movie releases this since ~May is just not holding water.
kaseijin 6 hours ago|||
Hollywood movie industry is starting to come around and fix the problem which more "bad writing" than anything but it takes awhile and they've still got a lot of stinkers still in the pipe. But that's always true.

The industry goes through slumps and renaissance periods as the creative juices wax and wain. Game industry is falling into the same trends.

Even during creative slumps there's always someone out there not following the trends making something good

atentaten 7 hours ago||||
Which of these movies would you say are good? I haven't been following up with releases but would like to watch something worthwhile.
Marsymars 5 hours ago|||
Depends on what you like. I quite enjoyed Project Hail Mary, The Invite, and Tony. I'm excited for Wildwood and Ray Gunn.
DangitBobby 6 hours ago|||
You Can See Everything is definitely worth watching.
tayo42 7 hours ago|||
It felt like there were years where good movies like stopped being made. Or just contrasted with years filled with good movies.

What came out this year that you think you'll watch again in 10 years?

Timon3 4 hours ago||
Project Hail Mary! I loved it, will definitely be a yearly rewatch for me.
SoftTalker 7 hours ago||||
Well it's shot on a phone, lit with bad LED lighting and edited on a laptop. It all shows in the final product.
MiroslavPokorny 7 hours ago|||
It feels like all media, from tv shows to movies are all following a certain formula, with a goal to drive a certain social perspective about people and society.
_heimdall 8 hours ago|||
I believe its called South America now.
so-gala-massey 7 hours ago|||
Maybe this is an unpopular opinion, but I stopped watching broadcast/cable TV 20 years ago. I had Netflix until they switched to their own content and started raising rates, so I dropped it. I now rent DVDs from a place about 15 minutes from me. I also have Kanopy for free. Here’s the opinion: stop watching. That’s the only way to send a message. Read a book. Rent a dvd. Or play a game. Or draw. Or visit friends and play board games. Or learn to play an instrument. Or find a game store near you and go to game nights. Or bowl. Find something else to do than drool at a screen watching content product that doesn’t give a shit about. Right now I’m doing advent of code from 2019 in LISP. Haven’t programmed lisp since college and I’m having a blast. Get a hobby. Screw the media machine.
robswc 6 hours ago|||
> Paramount Plus has nothing else.

This is funny, because every damn time I find something I want to watch its on paramount+.

There has to be a paradox/law named after this at this point. "The thing you're trying to watch will always be on the service you don't have."

Terr_ 6 hours ago||
That is a real reason I can't summon the interest to subscribe to any of them: Whatever I pick, I'll be dissatisfied, so I put it off for another day...
andyferris 4 hours ago|||
Apple was correct in the beginning here - the only way to make a service satisfactory to users is to have streaming aggregators (hosting all content) fed by different producers/studios. The "Spotify model", if you would.

The modern "Netfix model" has seemed to resulted in large number of new TV shows (relative to number of new movies) which always seem to get killed before their plotlines are resolved. And when I have something in mind I want to watch I often don't even know where to find it.

I'd prefer to go get DVDs from Blockbuster at this point - it'd be more convenient!

asdff 4 hours ago|||
This is the biggest thing with streaming vs cable. Say what you will about the commercials, it solved the intertia issue of figuring out what to watch with curated content. What to watch? MTV of course. Done.
AnodicElegy 5 hours ago|||
For South Park, I just wait for a full season to be out and watch it over a month, then cancel. $15 for a season isn't too bad.
rr808 6 hours ago|||
If only there was a service where you paid a fixed price for a bundle and you had a set top box that had all these channels together in one package. Of course you'd have a lot of channels you never looked at but overall it would be more efficient.
senordevnyc 7 hours ago|||
Without even looking at the data, I bet both of your hypotheses here are wrong.

I bet the median American has more real disposable income than four years ago.

I bet the median American spends more in real terms on entertainment (and streaming specifically) than four years ago.

Almost without fail, the data in almost any area of modern life seems to be way less negative than people’s vibes about it are.

WarmWash 7 hours ago||
I think we are still in a hangover from the financial cocaine the governments were handing out during the pandemic (and even long after it was a problem).
qurren 8 hours ago||
Also, nobody has any time for entertainment. Office workers all working 80 hours a week fearing stack ranking, PIPs, layoffs, needing to scramble to get a new H1B job or risk getting kicked out of the country and having to uproot kids. Service workers are working 120 hours a week across 3 jobs. Single people are working 100+ hours a week studying and interviewing and not getting jobs.
cjpearson 7 hours ago|||
While this may be true for some people, overall this is not backed up by the data.

The average amount of time spent doing "Relaxing and leisure" activities (mostly TV) has increased 6% in the last twenty years. There was a small decrease after the post-COVID peak, but working time has also decreased in this time frame.

https://www.bls.gov/tus/tables.htm

senordevnyc 7 hours ago||
How dare you bring facts and data to a fight based on vibes!
_heimdall 7 hours ago||||
Interesting, I have seen people be stretched thin and more stretched but I haven't seen people working 80-120 hour weeks. Different circles maybe?

I do feel for anyone trying to find a new H1B sponsor. I've lived and worker as a foreigner before, its stressful for sure. It is also a tough spot for a country to be in, if your domestic labor is struggling to find or keep jobs itsnhard to justify continuing protections for foreign labor.

tokioyoyo 6 hours ago|||
Not true. If you look at any “cheap entertainment” dashboard, you’ll see usage has been going up.

My hypothesis is, YT, Reels and TT are eating everyone’s lunch, as people spend more time on those. And for people who don’t watch much, there’s Spotify. Basically attention span degradation across all age groups.

OgsyedIE 8 hours ago||
"You're going to begin to see demand destruction based on the pricing environment." - Bob Jordan, CEO of Southwest Airlines, April 23rd
Seattle3503 5 hours ago||
The full quote implies more uncertainty

> So based on that, we believe what is most fair is to put current trends in because you cannot predict at what point consumers and demand is going to be -- you're going to begin to see demand destruction based on the pricing environment.

https://www.fool.com/earnings/call-transcripts/2026/04/23/so...

combobyte 7 hours ago||
"We've finally gone too far on pricing" is a wild thing to hear a CEO say out loud in 2026.
redwood 7 hours ago||
It's not that the prices are up to milk the consumer. Look at Southwest's thin profit margin. Costs are up
OgsyedIE 7 hours ago|||
Costs aren't just up on the shocks of this year. The daily production of all diesel and jet fuel per capita has been declining month on month since 2008.

The per capita part is very important to explaining the figure, don't ignore it, but if you break oil (and related products like kerogen, bitumen and NGL) into light, medium and heavy we hit peak medium oil in 2008.

redwood 3 hours ago||
I'm not following
SoftTalker 7 hours ago|||
Jet fuel has more than doubled in cost just this year. That wasn't in anyone's plans.
nomilk 2 hours ago||
The framing of job "loses" is irrationally pessimistic.

When a job is no longer required, it means we (humanity) managed to do something clever to get it done with less labour - a great achievement!

This frees up those involved in that job to pursue other work, increases supply, and drives down prices - i.e. society overall experiences an increase in standards of living.

The only negatives are on the individual who's laid off through 1. frictional unemployment (the hardship someone goes through when switching jobs), and 2. potential salary reduction as they go from a lucrative job to being a newbie in their new career. But like any career, they can build that up again.

The best mindset is not to take any job/salary for granted in the first place, as it's not someone else's responsibility to employ us.

WA 1 hour ago||
Way too simplistic view.

> increase supply

Not necessarily. Supply could stay the same.

> drives down prices

Not necessarily, if raw materials got more expensive.

> The only negatives are on the individual

You might want to have a look at youth unemployment rates. Sometimes, there simply are no jobs: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/unemployment-rate-for-you...

Changing careers reduces your income and your purchasing power. If it happens to too many people at once, standard of living decreases.

You simply neglect demand in your entire argument.

nomilk 1 hour ago||
But layoffs only occur if firms can produce output at a lower cost by using AI rather than humans. Those humans go and work elsewhere and total output increases.

Try LLMing this (it efficiently interrogates both your assumptions in a single prompt):

> in standard economic thinking, is it possible for a job to be made redundant due to improvements in technology and that employee to be reassigned elsewhere, and for either long run supply to go down or long run prices to go up?

Note: there will always be edge cases, for example if I owned a business, I could theoretically replace someone with AI, and increase my prices, which would contradict the idea that greater efficiency always results in more supply and lower prices, but overall in the long-run that won't happen.

joedwin 9 minutes ago||
[flagged]
hermannj314 1 hour ago|||
I do think certain tax incentives to create jobs, contractual obligations between employer and employee and legal restrictions on termination of employment can create a condition where someone is responsible for employing you.
imposter 1 hour ago||
[dead]
marcyb5st 1 hour ago||
I was wondering about this recently. I visited my parents in Italy and got to watch some TV with them (at home we don't have the TV even connected to the Antenna as it is only for YT or through the media center).

I noticed that a good percentage (between 30 and 50%) is AI generated and I was wondering what impact it had on the actors/musicians/... . I mean, with a few 10s of Euros now you can achieve something that before it would've costed you several thousands or tens of thousands (depends on the quality of the production I guess).

I assumed at the time it must've been a slaughter for that part of the gig economy and this seems to confirm it.

wewewedxfgdf 8 hours ago||
Interest rates and inflation have vastly more impact than AI.
mkotlikov 7 hours ago||
This 100%. All the layoffs started before AI. High interest rates means businesses can't afford to take risks. Our entire economy is based on easy money from cheap debt. The tech layoffs are about being able to pay for AI whether that's paying for data centers or tokens.

I expect AI use to cause an increase in output, not a decrease in employment. At least right now. In TV and Film it would translate to more content that was too expensive to film before. If your business is making movies and then suddenly the market is flooded with fast and cheap movies, then you're going to make more fast and cheap movies too!

jeffbee 7 hours ago||
That doesn't explain anything in this article. All the time series go back to 1990 when interest rates were significantly higher any way you look at them.
bananamogul 6 hours ago|
Not factored in is the fact that there is just so much media now.

I think we could stop all content creation today and everyone would still have enough to last through their grandchildren's lifetimes.

And unlike a lot of things, media doesn't expire. I still regularly find albums, movies, and books from decades ago I enjoy today.

Media of all forms is just worth less now due to oversupply.

Timon3 4 hours ago||
> And unlike a lot of things, media doesn't expire. I still regularly find albums, movies, and books from decades ago I enjoy today.

Media doesn't expire, but with increasing distance to the cultural context it was created in, enjoying any work in all its nuances becomes harder. Take for example Arrested Development - one of the funniest TV shows of this century, but unless you bring sufficient knowledge on the Bush Jr. administration, you'll miss the funniest layers of many jokes and stories.

And it gets all the more interesting to look back at how the Zeitgeist changed over time, as tropes evolve and tastes keep changing.

SamuelAdams 5 hours ago||
Maybe. As a contrast, look at the book industry. We have access to 500+ years of books digitally, and yet most people prefer to read books written in the last 50 years.
conductr 3 hours ago|||
The point stands, the over supply is a huge factor. There’s so much content available that serves as a competitive/substitute for traditional film and tv that it changes the entire consumer behavior and economy around the industry, which translates to jobs.

I don’t think people will ever really want to only watch old stuff, or lack desire for new stuff. But, in terms of thinking about the volume of media available I think the non-expiring idea is valid. YouTube alone has 500 hours of video uploaded every 1 minute.

Gigachad 4 hours ago|||
The last 50 years of books is still more books in the genre you like than you could read in a lifetime.
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