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Posted by seddona 2 days ago

The Grid, a factory-scale robot in Massachusetts that builds PCBs on demand(www.circuithub.com)
373 points | 187 commentspage 2
giantg2 6 hours ago|
"...supply chain you can count on"

Except the components are mostly coming from China anyways, so the same disruptions are potentially in play.

Still, cool to see domestic options.

freeone3000 6 hours ago|
It’s kinda funny - half the parts on my boards are TI, but the Sherman fab only does rad-hardened components. It’s cheaper to ship me components from halfway around the world than it is to run a 120mm process node in north america.
crote 2 hours ago||
Yeah, because the demand for parts in the US is a rounding error! Build that fab in the US and 95% of its output will need to be shipped to China, because that's where all the mass manufacturing happens.
leptons 1 hour ago||
TSMC is already building a huge fab in Arizona.
chrissnell 7 hours ago||
I hope you move your fab to somewhere in the middle of the country. Part of the appeal of your concept to me is speed, but now I'm looking at cross-country FedEx, which is so expensive that it makes your service unpalatable. A plant in, say, Kansas, is a couple of days of UPS Ground from a huge portion of the country.
mrandish 6 hours ago||
> A plant in, say, Kansas.

While logistics and delivery (both inbound parts and outbound product) are a key factor, time and cost don't map linearly to distance. Rather than being exactly central, the optimal solve is often somewhat geographically central but leverages proximity to transport corridors, ports and other factors such as weather variability.

KCI isn't a central air hub and winter weather can disrupt flow. Being further south near an East-West hub like DFW can be better (or Houston if an Atlantic port is valuable). Or if bidirectional delivery is everything, base near a Super-Hub like Memphis (Fedex) or UPS WorldPort (Louisville, KY) and go all-in on reaching lower rate tiers with one preferred domestic delivery partner.

For high-automation physical plants, scale can tend to chunk into increments beyond which 'one double-size plant' isn't meaningfully cheaper than two 'single-size' plants. Then an optimal build-out end game can be East and West plants that are each one air-hop from all major metros on that coast and a one-day truck/rail hop from 50% of customers on that coast. If it's a rapid-turn tech product, Reno can work well - half-day road trip from bay area for outbound and a Pacific port for inbound (Stockton). I don't know the quick-turn PCB assembly biz but maybe basing across the street from Digi-Key's biggest distribution center is a 'checkmate' move that beats all other advantages?

Logistics strategy is fun!

nonethewiser 7 hours ago|||
>A plant in, say, Kansas, is a couple of days of UPS Ground from a huge portion of the country.

80% of the US population lives east of the 100th meridian, which bisects Kansas.

It's probably not best to optimize for the lowest maximum ship time in the lower 48, but something more weighted for population. Lowest average transit time. I would have guessed something like Nashville, TN. Claude is telling me Nashville is up there but Dayton, OH is the best. 14% <= 1 day, 46% reached in <= 2 days and 74% reached in <= 3 days. 2.83 average.

Compared to Kansas City, KS at 5%, 25%, 61%. 3.11 average.

This fab is in South Deerfield, MA which is 15%, 26%, 52%, 3.32 avg.

I guess population is also technically not the best measure. It would be better to measure the potential customers. Which is interesting because those are going to be skewed towards the coasts to some degree.

Maybe your Kansas suggestion is more correct than I thought. I'd still wager its more like the midwest than the plains though.

bluGill 4 hours ago||
The big advantage Kansas has is a living wage is lower. That probably isn't the biggest bottleneck in this case though.
seddona 3 hours ago||
I hear you. We need more locations. I'm hoping we can do a bit better than ground actually as drone delivery comes online.
fhn 6 hours ago||
I'm willing to bet most of that delay is shipping and most will wait a few days to save $100.
LarsDu88 5 hours ago||
Logically having a robot is great, but doesn't Shenzen still have a massive supply chain for the actual stuff that goes on the boards?
seddona 3 hours ago|
Broadly speaking, there's a western supply chain and a china supply chain, lots of like for like MCU's and such in each. The western parts supply chains are actually pretty robust and built over many years so you don't hear much about them.
skew-aberration 10 hours ago||
Awesome. Wish I could work on a project like this. I wonder how it scales compared to a long linear assembly line with lots of preloaded pick and place machines. I've been expecting the next stage of electronics automation to look more like an amazon warehouse. Parts distribution and assembly happening under the one roof, fully automated.
otekengineering 1 day ago||
How long until you've built the Grid into a shipping container and are selling those?

Can't wait to see how quickly I can get boards next time I need a batch! The adage 'hardware is hard' is getting less true every day

nubinetwork 9 hours ago||
> So you pay about $165 more than the Shenzhen shop and get your boards five days sooner, with no customs and a supply chain you can count on.

A supply chain that also comes from Shenzhen... last time I checked, North America doesn't make chips or other components either.

mchannon 8 hours ago||
North America doesn't make chips or components?

That's never been true (at least since the first chips or components). A lot of my Shenzhen orders have to wait on international airfreight on US-made chips because the ones I spec'd (basically the only ones that would do the job) are US-manufactured and warehoused.

Recommend you look at a world map of Intel fabs. Or Micron Fabs.

netrap 8 hours ago||
Lets be realistic.. components meaning 0805 capacitors and resistors, small digital ICs. I can almost guarantee those aren't made in the US... and are WAY cheaper on a site like LCSC.
guywithahat 7 hours ago||
While I agree in principle that most chips aren't made in the US, tons of 0805 capacitors and resistors are made in the US. Vishay does a lot of that here, as well as a few other manufacturers. Mouser lists country of origin and you can search that way.
ianm218 2 hours ago||
Lots of use cases are more speed than cost sensitive. I.e. yes if you are paying a bunch of engineers in Boston who graduated from MIT to work on robotics $165 is a rounding error if you aren’t producing at scale.

Basically anything aerospace and defense related will care more about speed and compliance than cost.

ENadyr 1 day ago||
This is great! Are you able to do IFA for UL certification? That would be a killer for us!
lightedman 5 hours ago|
You don't accept industry standard formats and require source... that rules you right out of the aerospace company I work for. That's billions of dollars gone from your potential pool.

You spent 5 years developing this fab and somehow ignored regular industry standards the entire time? That does not instill confidence in your services, at least from my standpoint.

Needing to sign up for a quote? Who are you selling this data to?

seddona 3 hours ago|
We work with many of the worlds largest companies, speak to our account management team for custom contracts and such. We also support Gerbers, ODB++ and IPC-2581 if you like, the flow is just a little less slick.
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