Top
Best
New

Posted by aray07 13 hours ago

A Man from the Future: Why Johnny Can't Stop Abstracting(muratbuffalo.blogspot.com)
160 points | 77 comments
seemaze 11 hours ago|
I always recommend Turing's Cathedral: The Origins of the Digital Universe[0] by George Dyson when John von Neumann comes up, it's a fabulous read.

[0] https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/44425/turings-cathe...

paulsmith 5 hours ago||
This book is fantastic. Highly recommended if you have any interest in how the stored program computer came to be. The Dyson name apparently led to unrivaled access to first-hand accounts.
NDlurker 10 hours ago||
The audiobook was fantastic
nish__ 11 hours ago||
> Budapest around 1900 produced an absurd cluster of minds: von Neumann, Eugene Wigner, Edward Teller, Leo Szilard, Paul Erdős, Theodore von Kármán, George Pólya.

Not to mention Nikola Tesla about 20 years prior.

> When several of them turned up at Los Alamos and realized they had gone to high school together, Szilard joked that Hungary was a cover story for a Martian landing.

What if there actually are people who go to Mars in the future but regret it and the only way for them to come back to Earth is to invent a time machine and be reborn as a mathematical supergenius. That would explain this at least:

> At six, Janos (the OG hungarian name for Johnny) could divide eight-digit numbers in his head and hold a conversation in ancient Greek. He later added Latin, French, German, English, and Yiddish. The rumor was that he remembered everything he ever read. Many years later Herman Goldstine decided to test this by asking him to recite "A Tale of Two Cities." Von Neumann started on chapter one and had to be asked to stop fifteen minutes later.

sl-1 18 minutes ago||
ACX has a review on book that goes on exploring this: https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/book-review-the-man-from-th...
incognito124 8 hours ago|||
Tesla was educated in Graz and was only in Budapest for about a year
lern_too_spel 11 hours ago|||
> That would explain this at least:

There are more pedestrian explanations. https://www.theintrinsicperspective.com/p/john-von-neumann-s...

alcover 8 hours ago||
Ha! thank you. Doubted these crazy anecdotes. Often we're tempted to repeat them to impress our audience. I know I do..
paulpauper 8 hours ago|||
It's worth keeping in mind in the 1900s the bar for novelty was much lower. Today you'd have to learn vastly more to even stand a chance of making a single contribution , let alone as many as he had done.
Animats 3 hours ago|||
That's true at the beginning of a new field. I'm noted for some advances in network architecture. But when I did that, everybody working on the Internet could meet in one large classroom. If you were reasonably good, you could make major progress.

Computer science used to be tiny. In the late 1970s, AI was a few tens of people at MIT, at Stanford, and at CMU, with a few smaller groups elsewhere. I met about half the greats of my generation, as did everyone else who was serious. There were almost no textbooks in the early 1970s. When Knuth's Fundamental Algorithms came out, it was great to finally see what had previously been folklore on mimeographed sheets in an actual book.

I was involved with Autodesk in its very early days. Even went to the founding meeting. The feeling was that PCs were finally getting big enough to be interesting. The founders were all mainframe programmers, and the people who came up from 4K memory on an 8088 had no idea how to organize a big program. But mainframe people did.

There was a vast emptyness in the product space ready to be filled. Products considered were a window manager ("AutoScreen"), a text editor (Kern Sibbald actually built that), a database, and a CAD program. None of those existed yet as successful products. CAD was picked because the productivity gain was so huge vs. paper and pencil drafting. At the time, the state of the art in drawing editing was drawing on mylar and using an electric eraser to delete. Then you ran the Mylar master through a big copier to make blueprints or whiteprints. A CAD system on a PC was a very easy sell.

So all you had to do was make it work. No need to overcome the noise level of a thousand similar "apps".

bitwize 3 hours ago|||
Today you'd have to be an LLM.
bitwize 3 hours ago||
I once stumbled across a video on the Two Minute Papers YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@TwoMinutePapers

I remarked to myself how much the speaker sounded like Ren Hoëk, from The Ren and Stimpy Show. Then I looked up the name of the channel host: Károly Zsolnai-Fehér.

I thought to myself: Huh. Hungarian. That explains the mathematical prowess—and the voice. (Ren's voice is a pastiche of Hungarian actor Peter Lorre.)

willguest 12 hours ago||
I recently read 'Maniac' by Benjamin Labatut, which also tracks the life of Johnny von Neumann. It is a wonderful read - very eloquently put together, giving accounts of the man from the perspectives of several people in his life.

Not only does it capture the alien-like genius of the protagonist, but also described his particular emotional and social character in a way that I have not seen written elsewhere. Highly recommended.

zebomon 4 hours ago||
Seconding this. Maniac is a beautifully written book about von Neumann. It also led me to Benjamin Labatut's When We Cease to Understand the World, another great read.
UncleOxidant 5 hours ago||
I looked at the description and this part: "Braiding fact with fiction, Benjamín Labatut takes us on a journey to the frontiers of rational thought" - gave me pause. The Braiding fact with fiction part. Are there clear demarcations between fact and fiction?
diskzero 9 hours ago||
Any cognitive scientists here, or actual people with eidetic memory, who can comment how the brain would store everything you ever read or heard and how it can be recalled? What does it feel like to be able to recall and recite the entire text of a Tale of Two Cities?
rf15 3 hours ago||
That's sadly impossible, because the brain, as a limited number of cells, cannot store infite data. The problem lies in the people observing them, but you have some fun mechanisms (and a few of the commonly known fallacies and biases) at work here, that can all contribute to that perceived effect/illusion. Consider the following ideas:

- people can be slightly better than a given random observer, because they learned and prioritise to pay attention. They are better at recalling memorable and minor details, especially in short term memory and in memorable situations that a lot of people share long term. They will still forget long term information that is irrelevant.

- any such person and also observer can easily talk themselves into the belief that their skill must be absolute, especially since the observer will largely only test from his own inferior dataset.

- once the belief takes hold (because people love a good story), observers tend to look less for flaws and more for further confirmations to keep mythologising people.

paulpauper 8 hours ago|||
It is debatable how much of his memory feats are true. many of these claims are aphorical.
sorokod 2 hours ago||
Aphorical?
AareyBaba 1 hour ago||
apocryphal ?
contingencies 8 hours ago||
I would imagine that such people stay off opine and commentary style forums because their instant capacity to recall authoritative sources makes wrongful and derivative discussion tedious. To some extent, with the speed of LLM search and recovery today, we might all be heading that way. Indeed, interesting HN traffic of late appears to have waned. No doubt someone will say I'm hallucinating and all's normal. No, I'm not hallucinating.
Enginerrrd 8 hours ago||
It ebbs and flows. It’s actually quite fun to watch. When an interesting article pops up, inevitably a series of echos rise to the front page in the form of subjects corresponding to the various Wikipedia links one would need to fully understand a particular article, or sometimes just tangents that come up.
contingencies 7 hours ago||
Tangents and tangerine dreams :)
cadamsdotcom 8 hours ago||
What beautiful writing. I had no idea JVN did so many things..

"Can we survive technology?" got me thinking about our industry's upheaval. Software engineering's receiving the disruption it so proudly inflicted on other industries.. not reaping what it sowed; rather just the natural order of things.

Acceptance and moving with change is all that can work. Obstructing; denying; ignoring progress.. you'll lose your edge, your relevance, your value to others, and your job. Progress won't wait for us to like it. We must move fast enough to survive change.

Junior engineers for example? Suddenly too junior to be hired? Great! They, and you, can access multiple answer boxes with every PhD ever, and with a bit of creativity, they can leverage that. The best will survive on their own - the rest we should help along. Let's create tools and structures and institutions and help junior engineers finish their education to marketable levels. Let's help them find efficiencies and get there in the same duration. We shouldn't compel companies to preserve a hiring pipeline; now should we incrementally upgrade university educations. Better to go to kids in schools & universities and stimulate their creativity, get them using new tools in new ways, finding efficiencies - because that's what today and tomorrow's jobs will be about. Institutions will adopt the good ideas in time.

We have a responsibility to invest in - and invent - ways of bringing people along.

henrik_w 12 hours ago||
I read The man From the Future a few years ago, and I highly recommend it! John von Neumann was such a fascinating and influential character. If you are interested in the modern history of mathematics, computers, game theory and more, pick up a copy.

I also wrote about why I liked the book so much:

https://henrikwarne.com/2024/07/07/john-von-neumann-the-man-...

senderista 1 hour ago||
Was not expecting to see some LLM tells in Murat's writing, although it's clearly been heavily hand-edited.
olooney 9 hours ago||
Big fan of VnM theorem, which this article alludes to in passing. I think it asks a really great question: "can we make good decisions under uncertainty?" And the answer turns out to be "Yes" with some caveats.
paulpauper 8 hours ago|
He advocated an immediate preemptive nuclear strike on the USSR: "If you say why not bomb them tomorrow, I say why not today? If you say today at five o'clock, I say why not one o'clock?"

This is why he was dismissed in so far as foreign policy was concerned, where nuance and patience takes precedence over cold, calculating game theory. Not only would it not have been feasible (Russia is huge), but it would have led to follow on effects by possibly pulling the US into potentially another world war. This is evidence you can be a genius in some areas and wrong in others.

Dylan16807 1 hour ago|
That quote doesn't sound like advocacy of an immediate strike to me. That "if" is massive, and going into the details of why you're not already attacking is very likely to give you reasons that keep making you not attack.

Maybe there's some context that suggests otherwise?

More comments...