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Posted by acossta 9 hours ago

Gemini 4 Carbon(blog.google)
804 points | 662 commentspage 7
GodelNumbering 8 hours ago|
Argon(18), Carbon(6), they have Helium next and some quark after that.
thway15269037 8 hours ago||
I wonder, with all these releases and with all impressive open models, is Mythos even relevant anymore? Did it even exist or was just a, ahem, "run 100 concurrent requests and select best response"?
user43928 8 hours ago|
Mythos is Fable and you can see on the chart that Fable 5.1 is no longer at the frontier.
tschellenbach 9 hours ago||
well at the very least it will encourage anthropic to launch their new opus
_qua 4 hours ago||
My humble theory on naming: Argon-Carbon = ArC

Next: Silver, then Iodine

Slowly spelling out ARC-AGI

I_am_tiberius 8 hours ago||
Just cancelled my Anthropic subscription. Looking forward to this.
ac29 8 hours ago|
Its a paper launch, Argon took a few weeks from when it was "released" to when you could actually use it in agy
I_am_tiberius 8 hours ago||
yes, but my Anthropic subscription also still takes 2 weeks to be effectively terminated.
jawiggins 8 hours ago||
There are so many benchmarks now, it’s hard to know which ones to look for. Google has listed a bunch that they’re winning at, but idk if those are cherry-picked or not.
Ozzie_osman 8 hours ago||
Yes but has it broken out of its sandbox and hacked anyone yet?
brainwad 8 hours ago|
Yes: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c607l0k72rlvo

How do you do fellow frontier models? </meme>

Fergusonb 9 hours ago||
Interesting - at time of writing, Carbon is claimed to be #1 on AA, but AA has not updated yet.

Excited to try it, opus level benchmarks with their omniscience score and multimodality seems worth testing!

inknight 9 hours ago||
I don't trust AA scores after the last update to the index. Specially now that they are including private benchmarks that no one can test by themselves but only trust the entity doing them.
Marha01 8 hours ago|||
I don't like it much, but I understand. It's the only way to be objective. Models are trained and benchmaxxed on any popular public benchmarks.
techmunky 3 hours ago||||
i was wondering why the pareto line moved so much. i did not remember it being all openai models. good to know i dont need crazy pills yet.
andriy_koval 3 hours ago||||
we need to make semi-educated decisions to pick model somehow, and AA is the best what is available
JacobAsmuth 8 hours ago|||
You'd prefer public questions and answer sheets that anyone can train on?
verdverm 9 hours ago||
AA just updated their intelligence index to v5

https://artificialanalysis.ai/articles/artificial-analysis-i...

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50268868

https://theainewsreport.com/2026-10-28-artificial-analysis-i...

IMO it emphasizes the wrong things if we are interested in "intelligence"

machiaweliczny 8 hours ago||
I think it's best ranking of models so far
verdverm 8 hours ago||
yea, I probably agree, but I also do not find it represents real world use and performance

There are many more aspects which affect outcomes

joshstrange 9 hours ago||
> Carbon ranks #1 on the recently updated v5.0 of Artificial Analysis Intelligence Index at 59.

Clicks link

Carbon isn't anywhere on the page and you can't toggle it on either. I'm sure it's just timing and it will be there soon but still just look amateur, which is about how I feel about Google and AI overall. I know the models have improved but I still have a bad taste in my mouth from testing Gemini in the past and I still feel that Google has an overly complicated "how to use our models" that changes way too often. That coupled with "you could lose access to your google account if we don't like what you do with Gemini" means I have little desire to test it out.

On top of all of that I'm completely over announcing a new model that we can't actually play with or try out. I don't think Google is lying about how well their model scored exactly but it still has big "my girlfriend goes to another school, you don't know her"-energy.

Marha01 8 hours ago|
It's already there.
Topfi 9 hours ago|
> Carbon ranks #1 on the recently updated v5.0 of Artificial Analysis Intelligence Index [0] at 59.

If you are going to hyperlink, maybe make sure that your model is actually on the page.

Also, the screen reader has a bug ([[duration]] minutes instead of the actual value) and you have once again announced a model we cannot use.

Edit: Both have been fixed after posting this. Maybe a Gemini 4 Carbon Agent has read and fixed the screen reader bug xD

I cannot fathom what motivates a lab, whose releases for the last year haven't been competitive, to shoot themselves in the foot like this. All this does is make it easier for competitors to snipe your actual launch, even if there was potential with this model (doubtful given 4 Argon, 3.1 Pro and 3 Pro), now everyone knows what exactly they need to release eval results wise to beat Carbon. There is this old idea of "Your competitor always is the first to have an idea what your next product will do", but in this case, Anthropic and co don't even need to guess, they got specific numbers to target.

Announce your models the moment they are available on API and in the subscription for all paying subscription users (cough Argon cough), stop with the cryptic tweets to drum up hype you know full well you won't live up to and make models that tool call, task adhere, task infer and handle long context tasks well beyond simple back-and-forth, chat style prompting. Reminder, during Ox Alpha, actual Google employees implied that was their model. How is this something anyone would believe is a good idea and how are they still allowed to tweet anything after? Please, stop that, it isn't helpful.

If frontier isn't your thing, stop wasting money on moonshot pre-train runs, fund research and open weight via Gemma and sell your inference hardware to other labs, that's far more lucrative anyway, as seen with Colossus 1.

[0] https://artificialanalysis.ai/evaluations/artificial-analysi...

gengelbro 9 hours ago||
Oh come now, this rolled release is now the standard for frontier models. Also, the fact that AA hasn't updated their page is not a scandal, just a launch day hiccup.
joshstrange 8 hours ago|||
> Oh come now, this rolled release is now the standard for frontier models.

Sort of? Yes, OpenAI has been bad about slow rolling but Anthropic's last few models have been available essentially at the same time as they announced it. In most cases I updated Claude Code and was using the new model right away.

Compare that to OpenAI who sometimes says "Available to all Plus/Pro/etc plans" without saying anything about "rolling out" and then it's a crap-shoot on when access will actually roll out. That said, they have gotten better, it used to be 1-3 weeks sometimes to get a new model/feature they announced was available for your plan.

And then there is Google... Who loves to talk about models like this and then give no timeline for release. Even when they do release the models it's miserable to find out how to even use it. Is it in the API? Which API? Google Cloud/Vertex/Gemini Cloud? Whatever it's called this week? Coding plan?

No, what Google does (or rather fails to do) in its rollouts does not compare to OpenAI/Anthropic.

As for the AA page, it's just embarrassing. Any smaller company doing that would get roasted, Google doesn't get a pass, learn how to coordinate or wait for something to actually be true/live before posting.

Topfi 8 hours ago|||
There was none for Fable 5.1, Opus 5.5, Sonnet 5.5, GPT-6.1 Sol or GPT-6.1 Terra and while Astra had a period between announcement and availability, it was a single day, so not sure that applies either.

Gemini 4 Argon (at best Sonnet/Terra level) meanwhile took weeks to “come out” after their public announcement and when it finally did, paying Google AI plan users couldn't access Argon on Gemini or Antigravity even a week after. Three weeks from announcement to accessible for paying customers is not standard outside Google and this has been a problem with every Gemini release for the last year, so even using governmental requirements as an excuse isn’t possible here.

I will say that I dislike how OpenAI releases model only for Work and Codex but not via Chat, Anthropics "everywhere all at once" strategy is I feel the most user friendly.

Wheen 8 hours ago|||
AA has also lost all credibility to me with all of their index changes being unannounced and following an open weight model getting close to the top spot. I gave them the benefit of the doubt for v4.2, but to do this again immediately after Kimi K3.1 got into the top 5 is a little too suspicious for me. For Opus and Astra to stay at about the same score while everything else drops feels like they are adjusting weights specifically in their favor.

Even in the optimistic case that this isn't some conspiracy, it highlights how arbitrary their scores are. I had trusted their previous ratings and their new index shows that even AA doesn't agree with them. What's to say this new index is any better and won't just change drastically again?

causal 9 hours ago|||
I imagine there is immense pressure to announce taking the #1 spot while they still have it. It's probably better than releasing a model that hasn't been properly vetted, but I agree it's annoying.
Topfi 8 hours ago|||
Fair point, though if they are still vetting, that'd likely also entail some post training or at least the addition of a filter, should they find something they do not like. As we've seen with Fable 5 and Opus 4.8 Fallback, that can significantly affect user experience and benchmark scores.

So if they are still vetting and changes can thus happen, that'd mean the score could change for better or worse. Not sure they'd want the embarrassment of a #1 score changing after announcement.

tanseydavid 8 hours ago|||
There is an earnings call today for Alphabet.
odie5533 8 hours ago|||
We're reaching the point where models are only going to hold the number one spot for hours.
Topfi 8 hours ago||
I honestly still need at least a week before I have a decent picture of GPT-6.1 Sol performance. The announcement pace is truly insane.
mattlondon 8 hours ago|||
> If you are going to hyperlink, maybe make sure that your model is actually on the page.

It's on my screen. Try asking your agent to refresh the page.

Topfi 8 hours ago||
As written, both issues were fixed ten minutes after I posted the comment.
Imustaskforhelp 8 hours ago||
gemini 4 carbon has now come on the artificial analysis page. I think that I had checked it 5 minutes ago and it wasn't there.

For historians, The blog post is 31 minutes ago so we can say that it was true for 20-30 minutes.

Slightly embarrasing but it seems to be the case that the model is actually worth what they were saying on AA. It's just that it is not available to people and I think that Anthropic and OAI will release a better model to public before google might.

AA has tons of its flaws too and the recent shift to their new v5 has been nothing but controversial for many.

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