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Posted by soheilpro 2 days ago

Postgres 19 is late because so many more bugs are being found now(rhaas.blogspot.com)
414 points | 263 commentspage 2
baq 3 hours ago|
The process should now be: write your specs in lean, LLMs fill the gaps, then you translate the proof into your end product software. Otherwise LLMs will simply keep finding bugs, both in old and new code.
chamomeal 1 hour ago||
Feel like “translating the proof into your end product” is a bit of a “draw the rest of the owl”
LtWorf 2 hours ago||
You assume lean can express more than it can.
danolivo 2 hours ago||
There are always bugs in the code - AI is just a little more powerful tool to detect them. For me, the main outcome of a bug is whether it is a security breach or it exposes the need to change the whole architecture. In current Postgres, AI hasn't found such significant bugs yet.
SeriousM 2 hours ago||
So we have a new term: VDoS Deny a patch/version by burring the publisher with CVEs
gosen 3 hours ago||
AI struggling a bit with legacy databases in a way that you need more iterations to really find all the bugs, otherwise it turns into "find bugs -> fix bugs -> find more bugs which were not found on step 1 -> fix regressions" and that repeats again and again :/ But I'm sure that Postgres team will handle that eventually and we'll get a better product in the end
dabinat 6 hours ago||
If software as mature and widely-used as Postgres has this level of hidden bugs, what about the average software product?
creata 45 minutes ago||
Unlike Postgres, the average product isn't written in C or C++, so it's probably better. People (even the Rust fans) underestimate how many footguns are everywhere in C and C++. Even the best developers write security bugs not infrequently.

And the average product is solving much easier problems (in terms of low-level programming, which is where the worst bugs tend to be) than a high-performance database.

marcus_holmes 6 hours ago|||
The average software product is worse. Lots worse.

And half the software products are worse than that.

Any organisation that said "let's move fast and break things" is now busy finding out what's actually broken.

tommek4077 2 hours ago||
Depends. Security is and never was only bug free software.

If no attacker reaches system X you are not as exposed as with your internet facing frontend.

Merad 5 hours ago|||
Most likely pretty bad. It's not all that difficult to sweet talk Fable into doing a security review of a code base. I've pointed it at a few of the major open source projects in the main tech stack I work with and it found dozens of bugs in each. Many were fairly minor, and some of the more significant issues relied on fairly narrow attack vectors (for example, a compromised DB server being used to attack a web server). But this was just a single search pass, literally a few lines of prompt and an hour's worth of agent time.
SoftTalker 6 hours ago||
Postgres is old but a lot of its features are new. You can't really say it's mature software, as much as it has changed over its lifetime.

Truly mature software doesn't get used, because people see low activity on github and assume it's "dead" or see no new features in years and assume that it's stagnating.

tibbar 5 hours ago||
Note how Robert mentions a sharp increase in back-patched commits. Many of these bugs have indeed been around, silently, for a long time.
flakes 6 hours ago||
Most of the parent comments in this thread did not seem to understand the article. So here’s the tl;dr

Postgres release is delayed due to the quality bar getting raised. New features are getting more eyeballs, and therefore leading to more rollbacks. Pre-existing releases are getting bug reports and backported fixes at much higher rate. Bug fixing might be taking away time from feature development, but does harden the codebase. LLM usage seems to have been a net positive.

Jean-Papoulos 3 hours ago||
I hope the maintainers can make this release, and then just skip the next one to focus on bugfixing and the probable refactoring needed for some of the bugs.
flossly 8 hours ago||
“A wizard is never late, nor is he early; he arrives precisely when he means to” -- Gandalf
liampulles 2 hours ago||
Given that the core feature of Postgres is rock-hard reliability, this is great news.
ksec 4 hours ago|
I wonder if the same is happening with mySQL? And if any of these would means OrioleDB takes a lot longer to be integrated?
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