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Posted by Zariel 12 hours ago

ChatGPT and Codex usage limits merging(help.openai.com)
110 points | 52 commentspage 2
sjs382 9 hours ago|
I got it, too. Not surprising but this was definitely one of the deciding factors keeping me with ChatGPT. Much more willing to change providers now.
anonymous908213 5 hours ago||
In reality this is a non-issue because average chat conversations use 1/1000th the tokens of agentic coding usage (given they aren't reading their 1 million lines of generated code for every change), but at the same time... it should be a non-issue for OpenAI too. They talk about developing "intelligence too cheap to meter" and then go on to meter an absolutely trivial amount of usage for people already paying $100-$200 a month, embarrassing. The PR hit and psychological aversion to using ChatGPT this will instill in users will hurt them more than covering this usage could ever possibly do.

I say this working in an LLM startup where we serve literally unlimited usage (with the only caveat being that usage is serialized) via subscription and, unlike OpenAI, are actually profitable. I guess when you're hundreds of billions in the hole you're desperate to try anything to save the sinking ship, even if it clearly won't work.

mellosouls 1 hour ago||
This absolutely is not a non-issue for people like me who've been getting masses of coding work against github done via Chat without affecting usage.

We use Chat precisely because of that!

It's not unreasonable for them to switch but you really should not be so dismissive, this will likely have a massive effect on many.

xiphias2 24 minutes ago||
But that's exactly the reason why they had no option but to merge.

This is a way of misusing the system and taking away GPU from people who are paying for metered work and the quotas became unsustainable.

throw93938383 3 hours ago|||
Chat can download and analyze webpages, or multi hour conversation with dosens pages to fetch. It can be pretty significant part of usage!
tomjen3 53 minutes ago|||
The major issue is going to be you ran your stuff dry with agents and now you are cut off from the chats. If instead, like 1% had been reserved, then you'd automatically be able to use the website and it would cut off people who set up skills to hack around it, which I suspect is why they're doing this.
fy20 2 hours ago|||
There are various plugins to make ChatGPT queries in Codex, so you can use your allowance from there. I'm hoping this just closes that gap, and in reality it doesn't change anything.
71bw 2 hours ago|||
Tell me more about the startup.
runjake 4 hours ago||
If it's a non-issue then why are they doing it?
jasongi 4 hours ago||
Just a guess - MCP Tunnel loophole has been widely abused by the same types who kept their final session after hitting their limit open using a "fake" tool call (which unfortunately means we now all get cut off when reaching limits).

Others building harnesses around chat or simply falling back to manual copy/paste mode once hitting limits. Ironically AI makes it easy to automate the tiniest loophole to make it a problem as soon as word gets out.

It's a non-issue for everyone not trying to tokenmaxx and sticking to the spirit of subscriptions, but theoretically these folks SHOULD be on a higher tier that reflects their actual usage.

Edit: I feel like I'm coming off as a corpo sycophant defending OpenAI here... not my intention. Both big AI companies encourage this behaviour by creating complex and inconsistent rules around their plans such that it is impossible to know what a subscription is buying, a large chunk of the value coming from discretionary but quite predictably regular resets. As much as they have every right to change their plans... they got what they asked for with all the folks exploiting the loopholes. I just wonder if we'll ever get any sort of consumer law around these "mystery box" subscriptions with meaningless tiers so everyone can stop wasting energy on finding, exploiting and then fixing pricing loopholes.

dennysora-main 1 hour ago||
I really think that OpenAI during this period not only can't release anything good, but is doing more and more restrictions.

And then giving a bunch of bullshit reasons that make no sense.

I think everyone should start thinking about how these AI companies that have absorbed huge amounts of money are becoming more and more evil, and develop the ability to say "We have choices."

I think it's time to make these AI companies return the resources they have occupied, and seriously reflect on themselves.

I think we should make these companies' stock prices crash, demand a pause on unreasonable AI construction, and cancel subscriptions to those AI services that are expensive as hell and control your entire system.

Embrace open source, LLMs that you can privately deploy yourself, and keep your data in your own hands.

I think China is really doing well right now, open sourcing useful models, not letting hardware prices rise crazily, and even pushing down Token prices.

As for security issues, since they're already open source, we can do Fine Tune afterward to solve these problems.

And 4, someone has done experiments showing that 4 small models can reach the level of claude fable.

I really hate those arrogant AI giant companies. They act so calm and unbothered, wanting to own everything and control everything. It's disgusting.

I'm really looking forward to China developing a cheap, non-CUDA AI machine, keeping the price around 1000 USD, a machine that can run deepseek flash level models, becoming a dedicated AI machine rather than a training machine.

Then there will no longer be Token anxiety, no need to react to all kinds of decisions made by those AI companies, and no problem of giving your data to others.

It's time, brothers.

egeozcan 4 hours ago||
Claude Max x20 became x10 and now this? I think the demo period is ending.

So happy to have the open models!

fraXis 2 hours ago||
Claude Max 20x is becoming Ultra and the weekly limits aren’t changing: https://x.com/claudeai/status/2116220869479428500
egeozcan 2 hours ago||
In the plan it says 10x weekly usage instead of a general "20x" statement (which was confusing, admittedly)

https://x.com/JesusIsGod/status/2116228727059411248 am I misinterpreting? Or was it always 10x? Everything is so vague, no wonder they call it "vibe-coding" :)

edit: A lot of people on twitter say it has always been 10x for weekly so what do I know

luckylion 35 minutes ago||
My understanding is that it was 20x 5-hour-usage, never weekly. And they now just removed the 5-hour-limit on that plan alltogether.
danmaz74 1 hour ago|||
Ah, so both Claude and Codex are going to have the same exact reduction for their two equivalent plans - 20x to 10x, at the same previous price - at the same time? I already knew about the ChatGPT announcement, but the claude one is completely new to me and completely unexpected. So much for competition...
Zariel 56 minutes ago||
ChatGPT Pro 20x will remain at 20x it seems https://help.openai.com/en/articles/9793128-about-chatgpt-pr...

> The reduction announced in our September 29 email is canceled. If you already had the higher Work and Codex allowance, you keep it. If you had the lower allowance, it has doubled to match. Your subscription price stays at $200/month.

tomjen3 51 minutes ago||
Look up price versus intelligence for your favorite open model on artificial analysis and compare it with Luna, Sol, Opus, and Sonnet. Mind you, all of those are API prices, and you're still better off paying API prices than using an unsubsidized open model. Subscriptions from any of the major labs are an even better deal.
minimaxir 12 hours ago||
Not surprising: Claude has behaved like this for awhile and it was only a matter of time.

At the least, it deters people from spinning up Astra Pro requests via the ChatGPT interface willy-nilly.

jdw64 1 hour ago||
In the end, the service was maintained because of subsidies, and the service quality seems to be getting worse. There’s nothing that can be done.
aigenos 4 hours ago||
it should have been only one always, as in the end its model rate limits, so doesn't matter whats the client.
avaer 2 hours ago||
Sama not too long ago said the "last resort" would be ads in ChatGPT, but maybe with cutting usage, there are more last resorts left. Maybe a useful signal for shareholders on when to bail (i.e. now).
brianjking 4 hours ago|
I've been using ChatGPT since release and Codex since before ChatGPT was a thing (with the original Codex model). Am I the only one who didn't realize these limits weren't already merged since the current Codex app was released?
anukin 4 hours ago|
I think only people who used fClaude made that mistake. ChatGPT always used limits different from their other offerings.
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