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Posted by bookofjoe 1 day ago

Fujifilm to boost tape production 5x as AI fuels archiving demand(arstechnica.com)
177 points | 73 commentspage 2
sneak 2 hours ago|
Still an open question: How does S3 Glacier Deep Archive do it? Tape has been theorized but I’ve also heard arguments for very slow flash…
dzink 2 hours ago||
BluRay M-Disks are cheaper and more resistant to humidity / heat.
adrian_b 2 hours ago||
I wish that were true.

Alas, M-Disks are hugely more expensive than magnetic tapes, even when not taking into account their much greater volume.

The biggest M-Disks are of 100 GB and the cheapest that I see on Amazon (in 25-piece sets) are at about $9 without taxes and shipping. At that price, I can buy not 0.1 TB, but 2 TB of magnetic tapes, which also have a much lower volume, at 18 TB per tape for the older and cheaper LTO-9 cartridges. I can easily carry with me a suitcase with 360 TB of data (20 LTO-9 cartridges), or store it in a safe place. Carrying 3600 M-Disks or storing them in my home would be impossible.

M-Disks may be used only to archive some small amounts of more valuable data, e.g. documents or programs that you have written yourself, a few scanned legal documents, a few more important books, a small amount of music that you prefer, a few family photographs.

For bulk data, if you cannot afford the cost of tape drives, the only alternative is HDDs, but with HDDs you must take care to always use both duplicate HDDs and archive files with redundancy, which allow the regeneration of their content when any not too large part of the file becomes corrupted. You must also take care to migrate the data periodically to new HDDs, after a few years.

Due to their small size I have not tried to use M-Disks until now, so I do not know if my older Blu-ray recorder can write them. There is also the problem that the availability in the future of Blu-ray recorders and readers is uncertain.

theandrewbailey 1 hour ago|||
> but with HDDs you must take care to always use both duplicate HDDs and archive files with redundancy

I'm a noob when it comes to tape backups. Is copying the same stuff to multiple tapes standard practice?

> There is also the problem that the availability in the future of Blu-ray recorders and readers is uncertain.

LTO drives used to read tapes from 2 generations back, then just 1. LTO 10 isn't backwards compatible. Future availability of compatible tape drives is also uncertain.

underlipton 1 hour ago|||
Drive cost. Ease of restoration. Resistance to an EMP attack.
orlp 2 hours ago|||
From prices I can see it's 10-20x more expensive than tape archives.
bluGill 2 hours ago||
Only if you are filling the tapes. For the average person bluray is much cheaper since they don't have much data.
folmar 2 hours ago||
if you have less data you buy older generation tapes, LTO-5 is 1.5 TB uncompressed and should be in price sweet spot right now.
bluGill 1 hour ago||
Maybe. For the average person here though they will already have and want a blu-ray drive for "reasons", and so using it for backup is very cheap. LTO-5 might be cheap, but they still need to buy a drive that they won't use for anything else.

If you are a business of course tape is cheap. Even then, a few usb harddrives are cheap as well and much faster.

jefftk 2 hours ago|||
M-Disks are not cheaper than tape for bulk data storage. Once you're doing enough of this that you're not limited by the cost of the drives, it's about a factor of 25: $150/TB for M-disk vs $6/TB for tape.
theandrewbailey 2 hours ago|||
Bluray is cheaper per unit, but not per terabyte.
tokai 2 hours ago|||
But will there be any bluray drives available in the future?
netrap 1 hour ago||
There is also no investment in recordable blu-ray anymore from Sony. Only CMC and Ritek probably actually make recordable blu-ray now.
embedding-shape 1 hour ago||
Which LTO are you comparing with? Locally (Spain) it seems I get similar EUR/GB for BlueRay M-Disks as LTO-8, but LTO-7 and LTO-6 is way cheaper than BD. What exactly are you comparing here?
rowanG077 1 hour ago||
I have worked in tape for years. We can really tell there is a big boom after years of the market not doing super well.
wazoox 1 hour ago||
Shameless plug : for those who plan to try out tapes, time to re-post my blog article "Managing tape drives and libraries with the Unix/Linux CLI" :)

https://blogs.intellique.com/tech/2022/01/27#TapeCLI

pjc50 2 hours ago||
The cost of backing up slop gets added to the cost of generating it in the first place, I suppose.
classified 2 hours ago||
I would have thought this is for archiving pre-slop-era data, but archiving slop might be archaeologically interesting too.
rickdeckard 2 hours ago|
I don't understand, why don't these companies backup their data into the cloud? /s

That's what they keep telling everyone else for years now...

dylan604 2 hours ago|
and what do the cloud providers use to back it up? it there a cloud for the cloud? we're close to an Inception like multiple levels of cloud
rickdeckard 1 hour ago||
Space! (I presume)

That's where all my random pictures, duplicate bank statements and savegames will go. For the benefit of mankind! (and a small monthly fee)