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Posted by xoobdev 6 hours ago

US boy names that became girl names and vice versa(namedaisy.com)
224 points | 248 commentspage 5
moralestapia 5 hours ago|
Surprised to not see "Jordan" in there, it's the first one that came to my mind.
9991 4 hours ago||
> Failed to verify your browser > > Vercel Security Checkpoint | iad1::1793644520-hvXR6jD3A6jJoFcEhxLm7uNyDy9O2Ibl

Super informative article.

jasonlotito 5 hours ago||
Sort of reminds me of the color swap of Pink and Blue for Men and Women.
xdennis 4 hours ago|
You're the victim of misinformation.

In the past there were no hard associations between sexes and gender and it was possible to find boys wearing some pink clothing, but it was never the case that people associated pink with boys and blue with girls.

There are some limited examples that contribute to the misunderstanding. For example blue is often associated with the Virgin Mary and red (not pink) was considered a manly color often worn by warriors (e.g. the British, the Romans, etc).

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This is essentially the way reporting works. If you write an article showing that in the past it wouldn't have been bizarre for boys to wear pink you don't get much traction. But if you write how pink was actually worn by boys and it was considered shocking for girls to wear it, then people find that very surprising and you get a lot of views (truth be damned).

ternaryoperator 4 hours ago||
It’s easy to confirm that what you’re saying is not so. Ask AI and you'll get specific citations of pink being recommended for boys in the early 20th century: “in the early 1900s, publication guides and trade journals—such as the June 1918 issue of Earnshaw's Infants' Department—recommended pink for boys and blue for girls.”
kleiba2 2 hours ago||
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/unraveling-the-colorf...
ethagnawl 4 hours ago||
A wonderful example of how gender is a social construct.
YeGoblynQueenne 4 hours ago|
In English, maybe. Several other languages have gendered nouns, so names are not interchangeable. For example "Ιωάννης" in Greek is the male form of "John" given exclusively to male children, whereas "Ιωάννα" is the female form given exclusively to female children. No exceptions. AFAIU if a person wished to change their name from "Ιωάννης" to "Ιωάννα" they would have to go to court and change their birth gender also.
JumpCrisscross 3 hours ago||
Legal systems and language are a social construct. Your example doesn’t really disprove the assertion. (I’m not sure how these data promote the hypothesis either.)
bhouston 5 hours ago|
Green to orange? Why not blue to pink? I know it is stereotypical, but it is the natural colouring.
boston_clone 5 hours ago|
I'm not sure what you mean by "natural" coloring, but the association you're describing has also reversed over time; i.e., pink was considered masculine and blue was considered feminine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gendered_associations_of_pink_...

Revanche1367 1 hour ago|||
The link doesn't support your claim. There is no evidence of a reversal, and the original researcher most subsequent authors cited apparently never suggested there was, only that it was inconsistently applied.
bhouston 3 hours ago||||
> the association you're describing has also reversed over time; i.e., pink was considered masculine and blue was considered feminine.

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gendered_associations_of_pink_...

Yeah, so what if it changed a long time ago? If it was back then, when these were reversed, I would suggest the then current stereotype coloring.

This is like telling me you cannot pronounce sounds in modern English because prior to the Great Vowel Shift, they sounded different.

fsckboy 5 hours ago|||
I have heard and I do believe that there are countries that use other colors for babies, but wouldn't trust wikipedia nor its selective sources on any topic like gender; wikipedia is no longer enslaved to the truth.
boston_clone 4 hours ago||
You absolutely should trust wikipedia unless you can provide some evidence to the contrary; in fact, the linked article even has a whole section to support your doubt about the claim*('s veracity), which was interesting to read!

From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gendered_associations_of_pink_...

> In a 2017 letter to Archives of Sexual Behavior, researcher Marco Del Giudice commented on earlier claims about a supposed shift in pink–blue color associations or preferences sometime around the 1940s, from pink for boys and blue for girls before that period, to the opposite alignment afterward. He summarized his earlier work from 2012 which found "no evidence of either reversed or inconsistent usage prior to the 1940s".[41] Del Giudice called this theory the "Pink–blue reversal" (PBR), and said it was "usually attributed to [Jo] Paoletti", and quoted from five academic articles that reprised the theory of "pink is for boys" prior to the 1940s. However, he found upon analysis that it was exceptionally difficult to actually document such a shift, and exclaimed upon "the thinness of the evidence presented in support of the PBR".[42]

> In his 2012 paper, Del Giudice quoted from four articles published in academic journals which all echoed the claims about PBR theory, many relying on Paoletti, including Chiu et al., 2006: "Prior to that decade, Paoletti ... noted that the sex-dimorphic color coding of pink and blue was inverted, i.e., infant boys were dressed in pink and infant girls were dressed in blue";[43] Frassanito & Pettorini (2008): "At one point, pink was considered more of a boy's color ... blue was considered more for girls";[44] Cohen (2013): "the current stereotypical American assignment of pink to girls and blue to boys was reversed a century ago";[45] and Zucker (2005): "Yet, in the first two decades of the twentieth century, there is evidence that the gender-dimorphic nature of these two colors was inverted, that is, blue was judged to be stereotypically feminine whereas pink was judged to be stereotypically masculine."[46][47] But Paoletti never made the claim that pink and blue reversed, only that there was inconsistent usage that took until the 1950s to resolve[42] starting from the first appearances of gendered pink and blue color associations around the 1860s.[7]

tl;dr - gender is very clearly a social construct and we shouldn't get hung up on colors or names

- edited for clarity

Revanche1367 1 hour ago|||
>gender is very clearly a social construct and we shouldn't get hung up on colors or names

Why? Is there some reason we shouldn't get "hung up" about social constructs? Can you argue a reason for this without reference to other social constructs?

fsckboy 4 hours ago|||
>in fact, the linked article even has a whole section to support your doubt about the claim

I didn't say I doubted the claim, in fact I went to the trouble to say I believed it. So you should try again to glean what I could have meant.

boston_clone 4 hours ago||
> You absolutely should trust wikipedia unless you can provide some evidence to the contrary

ur turn to glean

fsckboy 2 hours ago||
i asked you first and you didn't answer what I asked, so why should I do what you ask? I am prepared to refute your point, but we need to stick to the agenda as set down.