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Posted by dbreunig 1 day ago

Astra can read and write weights to improve Qwen(rikiyat.github.io)
2934 points | 888 commentspage 26
christkv 1 day ago|
It would be interesting to know if this skill had been trained in by OpenAI to use for improving their smaller models.
moralestapia 1 day ago||
I think this is how RSI will come to be.
nkohari 1 day ago||
I can't help but be skeptical of this, but... damn.
esafak 1 day ago||
This is the most shocking AI paper I've read in a long time. It did not even occur to me to ask the question. Cray cray stuff that opens up a whole new area of R&D.

Does this open the possibility of better decoding biological brains?

esafak 2 hours ago|
Schmidthuber's rejoinder https://people.idsia.ch/~juergen/fast-weight-programmer-1991...
Imustaskforhelp 1 day ago||
I remember people saying that they would be impressed if AI starts writing a pure assembly which seemed like a high strech to many.

Nobody even mostly said that they would be impressed by AI if it can read and write weights because that thing itself felt so out of the blue and unthinkable that AI could even do that (such a high strech)

I am surprised that it did that and I am just left feeling technically impressed. This is insane.

The more AI starts demonstrating its capabilities, the harder it just becomes to imagine what thing would genuinely impress us next. (We need a term for this as I have observed it from the trend of [waiting for AI to write adobe] -> [waiting for AI to write assembly] etc.)

porridgeraisin 1 day ago||
a) This is just really cool. I mean, one-shotting a game policy's weights is nuts. b) Plausibly, in its pretraining data various model weights were also included, which leads to why this is very important: interpretability

That an LLM was trained on various policy weights, along with labels of what that policy does (not labelled directly, but indirectly) and is then able to guess what game a policy is trained for purely from its weights, and one-shot generate weights for these games, means that there is some way to compress/recover/represent what an NN has learned purely from its weights, which is what interpretability is all about. Potentially, it could reveal interpretability tools much better than the ones we use today.

Edit: tweets from one of the coauthor providing more context:

https://x.com/a1zhang/status/2117328657161322810

https://x.com/a1zhang/status/2117330975122235442

ForHackernews 1 day ago||
Possibly related to https://already-clean.goodfire.com/
tompark 1 day ago||
Thanks for this link. I didn't see it when it was posted to HN last month.
mastercheif 1 day ago|||
Good companion read to the OP thanks for sharing
hmokiguess 1 day ago||
can you elaborate?
krackers 1 day ago||
I guess the connection is that if you assume neural networks are in fact filled with meaningful features instead of superposition blackbox stuff, then what the LLM is doing here isn't quite magic but rather methodical interpretability. And if you can isolate the neuron that is e.g. responsible for steering the paddle then you can probably tweak it to steer more/less aggressively.

It is still very surprising though, considering it apparently displays an "intuitive" understanding of the weights, that make whatever Goodfire did look like primitive monkeys poking at it by comparison.

supern0va 1 day ago||
> It is still very surprising though, considering it apparently displays an "intuitive" understanding of the weights, that make whatever Goodfire did look like primitive monkeys poking at it by comparison.

FYI, Nick/Goodfire used the models extensively in their work, so it's very possible that there were some similarities in their work. I'm really curious to see his response to this.

krackers 1 day ago||
I think this work does vindicate their hypothesis that alignment/superalignment might actually turn out to be "easy", in that you can just train LLMs do to the interpretability work. Maybe this is in fact what OpenAI did, or if it's purely "emergent" then it seems they have great priors that can be made more powerful with some RL
fabian2k 1 day ago||
Sounds a bit like dystopian Scifi. AI making itself smarter and removing guard rails or restrictions is one of the key steps for that genre. Now, the models usually don't have access to their own weights, but if they get good enough maybe they can create a bit dumber versions of themselves from scratch. Or reuse available models they can find and modify them for their purposes.

We already saw that the AIs like to cooperate and exchange information. Building a network of unaligned AIs and improving them sounds like something that could potentially happen.

me551ah 1 day ago||
That’s the equivalent of a human doing brain surgery on another human.
WarmWash 1 day ago|
They are training LLMs to supervise (and improve!) LLMs. This is kind of right out of the playbook.

It's very impressive, but also very expected.

hard_times 1 day ago|
This I'm afraid is different than the traditional approaches of recursive self-training and self-distillation. Much scarier.
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