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Posted by dbreunig 1 day ago

Astra can read and write weights to improve Qwen(rikiyat.github.io)
2924 points | 879 commentspage 7
evox_group 16 hours ago|
This experiment is quite interesting, especially since only about 0.016% of the model weights were modified, achieving such a significant performance improvement.

However, I'm rather curious: Does this improvement come from the enhancement of the model's reasoning ability itself, or is it mainly due to the fixed issue of the model repeatedly reasoning and being unable to conclude normally?

namanbnsl 15 hours ago|
Mainly due to the looping.

Before the edit, 93% of MATH-500 answers hit the 32k token limit, compared to 33% after.

With 10 and 25 forward passes, looping barely decreased (87% and 86% still hit the limit) and the score didn't change much. The score jump only happened at 50 forward passes when looping decreased.

Astra edited the weights to bring out a capability the model already had rather than enhancing the ability itself. Pretty impressive.

Luc 17 hours ago||
https://x.com/AlexKrentsel/status/2117376683724660898

"i've reproduced the results from the MIT blog post today on weight-space programming. but one additional result i have to add: this is a new, step-change emerging capability that's appeared in just the latest set of models."

onaclov2000 22 hours ago||
So I decided to copy one of the prompts (the identify the image in the network one that was a white circle) My local ran qwen 3.8 27b with 4 bit quantization, and around 160k context window..... Seemed to solve this.

It output an ASCII white circle with a 75% confidence, as opposed to the model tested getting a higher confidence but drawing a circle with a filled in inside.

I'm not sure what I make of these results but does that make me less impressed with Astra? Or just that the prompt was quite good? I just can't tell personally at the moment (it was a quick experiment and I haven't thought much on it)

kccqzy 1 day ago||
The headline makes it sound very amazing, but reading the reasoning loops it didn’t strike me as outlandish. It feels no different from giving a human expert a printout of assembly code and figure out what it does. (The human expert can do it without tools too, but they probably wouldn’t do it because it’s tedious.)
uzbit 23 hours ago||
Am I missing something or is this just optimization with lots of trial and error? I mean look at this tool_calls[1] log, it ran ~100 python scripts to get to the solutions. It just seems like it's fitting a function in the only way it was allowed.

I will say that it's pretty wild to see all the different hypotheses tested.

[1] https://github.com/RikiyaT/lm_understand-logs/blob/main/exp8...

enestaylan 1 day ago||
Very interesting. I wonder if it’s because its dataset contains the weights of a gazillion different models. Maybe most neural networks trained on similar data eventually converge to isomorphic spaces anyway, even if the spaces themselves aren’t exactly the same. Or maybe Astra itself was trained with RL for alignment. Or for RSI.
faxmeyourcode 1 day ago||
This is so cool. It feels similar to the models' ability to read base64.

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/5F6ncBfjh2Bxnm6CJ/base64benc...

mplappert 1 day ago||
Even back in 2021, OpenAI worked on learned optimizers [1], ie neural networks that can update neural networks. Looks like this is now part of their larger model runs …

[1]: https://arxiv.org/abs/2106.00958

bilsbie 1 day ago||
The obvious question, could models start editing their own weights directly? I call it the Johnny five approach.
mlmonkey 1 day ago|
This raises so many questions.

Unless Astra was trained on other networks, how is it able to reason about the weights?

Does this mean that OpenAI has been including networks in its training sets, maybe in an attempt to RSI? I wonder which other networks are able to ingest other networks and reason about their weights?

Stevvo 1 day ago||
The frontier labs are known to ingest all publicly available data. Why would an open weight model be an exception?
user43928 1 day ago||
Opus 5.5 also identified Breakout for me when I tested it in the Chat on the website.
mlmonkey 1 day ago||
Can you give some details on what you did?
user43928 1 day ago||
I asked Opus 5.5 in Claude Code to prepare a reproduction of one of the things in the article.

It created a 130 KB file with the prompt for the task of identifying the game + the weights.

I pasted that into Claude on the web and asked it to perform the task without using tools.

ConteMascetti71 1 day ago||
i tested with deep seek and generated (you can read all reasoning pattern) the whole model for the breakout game

https://chat.deepseek.com/a/chat/s/9e864beb-698b-4079-94c4-e...

mlmonkey 1 day ago||
DeepSeek says "chat not found" :-(
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