Posted by robtherobber 5 days ago
When I self published my book with a physical print, I was required to submit a copy to them free of charge. Which I’m proud to have contributed to. Naturally I don’t want it accessible to all, hence the reading room requirement.
I remember them launching the web archive as an extension of this as a lot of human knowledge has moved online. So yes it feels weird you can only retrieve it from their reading room, but in the context of them having access to physical copyrighted material, it does make more sense.
This illegal non compliance becomes much more common in expensive books, digital-only publishers and in data publications which are commercial.
E.g. think of some very expensive report on data centres aimed at the hedge fund trading market, government procurement datasets, geodemographic data, credit risk databases, bloomburg trading data etc.
If it's published, even if it costs a lot, it should all be viewable for free in the library.
Yet by restricting to physical access in one room, most likely very few people benefit and I wonder if it is good value for money for the taxpayer.
Having the thing at all is valuable. The legislation provides a very limited exemption to IP law to allow archiving. Future legislators can work out how to loosen restrictions if its valuable to do so.
Not providing wider access can be changed at any point in the future, so it is only 'lost' now.
I have a server hosted in UK by a US company, being a resident and a citizen of neither...
I am asking for such a definition not because I object to archiving but because placement of my site into a collection of "UK sites" is an obvious mis-classification.
But, under that act, if it's hosted in the UK then BL can make a copy (for access in person by someone visiting the physical library).
UK law is pretty draconian, in my personal opinion, when it comes to copyright.
Can you cite a source for this? It sounds wrong to me.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/48/part/I/chapter/...
One of the things is: if a person creates something with a certain creativity level (I'm sure "hello world" programs don't count) then the work has automatically "Urheberrecht". There never was the need to register it, not even in history (like in the US, the origin of the "(C) xxxx by yyyy" markers). You also don't need to write any sentence at all into your works. What exactly is "certain creativity level" isn't in the law, that's on a judge in case of dispute. Also data bases and things generated by machines aren't covered.
And you automatically have "Urheberrecht" of it. And so automatically others aren't allowed to copy your work! https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/urhg/__2.html
(There are more ways you can get protection, e.g. if something is a computer program, or if something is art.)
And while this this can be seen draconian, then non-draconianess comes from exceptions. Generally private people are allowed to make one copy for their personal usage.
IANAL and the usual jadda jadda --- this is another difference between anglo-saxon and napoleonic right: in napoleonic right one doesn't have to state the obvious for fear of damages rulings ... oh, and technically we don't have napoleonic right in Germany either, as usual it's more complicated ... https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rechtskreis
And yet, UK and DE were together with many other countries in the EU. And so a lot of laws in the agricultural and trade realms are similar. Copying (and selling) stuff is IMHO trade related. So it doesn't wonder me at all that in practice the have a similar outcome despite being in totally different law systems.
So in Germany you are allowed to make copies of works even if you're not a deposit library.
I guess let's hope your browser doesn't have a cache and you don't visit any website in more than one browser.
But yes, it's an allowlist rather than a reasonableness test. The US 4 point test is somewhat decent in this regard.
But it's still bizarre for a legacy entity like a nation state to presume that it can identify an internet phenomenon without first explaining what it even means when declaring its intention to do so.
They didn't say but they must mean the items in the identifiers list must be ANDed.
Take the inverse of your case: Anyone can put up a site with content about the UK that isn't hosted in the UK nor owned by anyone living or operating in the UK. That meets one of the stated criteria. Does that give them the right to archive it?
That immediatly just exposes that there are bigger questions we have yet to figure out before we can answer that one. The entire premis of copyright broke a long time ago once the definitions of "copy", "redistribute", and "view" became vague, which happened once "view" started taking place via the technological means of sending a copy to you.
You could always resell a paper book. You could always lend a book that you already read, meaning multiple people get to read the same book.
Could you sell access to your private library?
Could you rent out a book? That's what Blockbuster did, but IDK if they maybe had some extra voluntary private agreements with publishers to keep them from trying to shut them down or inhibit their ability to aquire inventory, seperately from what might have been strictly legal obligation.
So with all of that actually still up in the air, it's hard to say if they have the right to archive anything on the internet that simply references the UK, or even stuff that is primarily about the UK. Many people publicly display things that they claim to retain copyright to, so they would argue that merely existing in public view on the internet does not grant anyone else the right to do anything but view it, and only grudgingly allow that most laws in most places also allow people to retain their own personal copy.
But if I view a public site and cache a copy on my laptop and don't re-publish that anywhere, I may still let 10 people come into my house and look at my screen. Though I think charging money for that is covered, like with bars with a cover charge and pay-per-view sports.
If I can cache any site I can see, and even let anyone else look at my cached copy, then how do you disallow the British Library from doing it?
So maybe in fact they didn't mean for the points to all be ANDed, and maybe in fact they do intend to copy anything from anywhere published by anyone if it merely references the UK in any way?
But if they are ANDed, then merely meeting any one condition, or even meeting all but missing only one, means they don't consider the site to qualify.
All in all it sounds like an underspecced undefined mess.
If states want to legislate internet objects, they first need to very clearly explain how they define the objects which they regard as being within their purview.
Not as old-fashioned as the idea of "legacy states" for sure but perhaps less able to withstand the test of time.
But in 1,000 years, I'm pretty confident that the internet (whether it consists of AI or humans or both) will revere The Declaration of Independence of Cyberspace (and The Grateful Dead more generally) and will regard Meta and Tiktok as footnotes.
Or do they provide a wifi and the “borrower” provides the device? Which then allows the borrower to “illegally” take the content with them?
I wonder whether it would be possible to create a website that could only be accessed after being archived, ie in the BLs reading room!
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[0] https://www.bl.uk/stories/news/electronic-legal-deposit-mate...