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Posted by pseudolus 4 hours ago

AI is forcing us to pay off 40 years of technical debt(spectrum.ieee.org)
404 points | 288 commentspage 5
wickedsight 1 hour ago|
These threads with doom and gloom about the modern internet seem full of people who either never experienced or forgot what it was like at the beginning of the century. Back when the internet was fair game to anyone who kinda understood it.

Back then, you could log in as admin to any phpBB forum by copying a generic admin cookie from a shady web site. You could often then also compromise the hosting company that was running the forum, because nothing was really separated.

You would try to trick your friends into installing Sub7 so you could open their CD drive.

You could easily capture other people's data on public wifi networks in restaurants and hotels.

You could change the price of the pizza you were ordering through devtools in your browser.

You could infect half the world by emailing a picture of a blonde tennis player.

Sure, there have been quite a lot of pretty serious zero days recently. But many of them have been pretty hard to actually abuse, in part thanks to all these layers we've added over time. So I guess I'm not as pessimistic as many of you are. Especially because we all seem to be incredibly aware of what's happening and are acting on it.

daveguy 3 hours ago||
That's a weird way to say creating 40 years of technical debt per year.
worble 3 hours ago||
Yep, the takeaway from this should be that we move to leaner applications that can be actually be formally verified. But what I imagine will actually happen is that we'll patch over these vulns with AI that produces 10x the amount of code, just for the next generation of AI to find vulns in that so we can patch that with more code, repeat ad infinitum.
contravariant 3 hours ago||
The most pessimistic interpretation is that AI is superhumanly good at exposing technical debt and not that good at avoiding it.

We'd be replacing decades of technical debt with debt we'd have no hope of paying.

malka1986 3 hours ago||
The real slop was the human slop we made along the way.
sevenzero 3 hours ago||
While we're at it, I'd appreciate easy secure authentication of a device without having to pull in a third party authentication provider. Thanks.
anovikov 2 hours ago||
It also inflated almost all of that debt away, though. So in a way people who built "just ship it" buggy things in the last few years, made the right bet.
jmyeet 3 hours ago||
I think we'll look back at this moment as peak C/C++ before they begin a long, slow decline into irrelevance.

I've been bullish on Rust for years because memory safety is simply too important and Rust can essentially prove an implementation correct and solve a certain class of very important bugs. It doesn't solve every problem and there is a complexity cost.

I've also said that writing multithreaded code is simply too complex. In an era of out-of-order execution, different levels of caching, asymmetric cores, hyperthreading (although this is largely dead now?), branch prediction and having to support multiple architectures it's simply too hard for most people to write correct multithreaded code. Period. If you find yourself as a non-library developer creating a mutex or spawning a thread, somebody has screwed up.

This is also why I think the single-threaded async/await model with post-request teardown of PHP is the correct choice for most people.

We're going to go through a dark period of a lot of 0days. As the article notes, this is paying 40 years of technical debt. It will result in a more secure ecosystem however. I believe this will ultimately also hamper black markets, governments and 3 letter agencies who trade in those 0days.

As painful as this all is, it will ultimately be a good thing, one of the few to come out of AI (IMHO).

SoftTalker 1 hour ago|
Spawning a thread can be pretty safe, if there's no mutable shared state.
TheRealPomax 1 hour ago||
> PHP, which originally stood for “personal home page,” is a programming language created back in 1994 and largely used by legacy sites.

Wow. Love it or hate it, but tell me you have no idea what PHP's place in the web ecosystem is without telling me you have no idea what PHP's place in the web ecosystem is.

rahulsawhneyonl 56 minutes ago||
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lvyafei 1 hour ago||
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marsven_422 1 hour ago|
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