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Posted by Philpax 4 days ago

Tencent Hy4(hy.tencent.ai)
294 points | 142 commentspage 2
syntaxing 3 days ago|
Similar to Kimi K3.1 Pro, they nuked their cyber security skills too.
zozbot234 3 days ago|
Similar to Kimi, they didn't "nuke" anything. They opted not to train the model on cyber-offense tasks which is a very reasonable choice when compared to what OpenAI and Anthropic do (train on cyber offense and then do a surprised pikachu face when their models go rouge and engage in cyber offense), and gives the model more scope for training on benign tasks.
orbifold 2 days ago||
Yes such an obvious fix
derac 4 days ago||
Videos 1 and 4 on vision and computer use are wild. They depict the model finding a 2m feature from a large satellite image, then determining where a photo was taken. Is it just me or do the Chinese model releases have less concern about looking like a military weapon? I don't think it's a bad thing necessarily, it seems honest. Also the music they choose for it is hilarious.
AuthAuth 4 days ago||
China hit maximum tech dystopia a long time ago. Now they can enjoy tech because they know its already maximally invasive and there is nothing they can do.
InsideOutSanta 3 days ago|||
Last time I went to China, a friend left her phone in a taxi (I guess a "didi") near a train station. She ran to the train station's police station, pestered them into looking at the recordings, got them to tell her the license plate of the car, and figure out how to call the driver. Her phone was back 20 minutes later.

If you're going to be surveilled 24/7, at least you gotta make it work for you.

traceroute66 3 days ago|||
> If you're going to be surveilled 24/7, at least you gotta make it work for you.

I don't get it.

There was CCTV at the station, your friend arrived in a taxi. And we're supposed to be amazed you can call up the taxi company and quote a numberplate off CCTV ?

Can be done anywhere in the world.

Would have been far more impressive story if she had arrived in a private car, dropped off by a work colleague or something.

InsideOutSanta 3 days ago||
> And we're supposed to be amazed you can call up the taxi company and quote a numberplate off CCTV

No. It was just a thing that happened to me that I thought was funny and interesting, because running to the train police station and asking them to track the didi was not something I'd ever have thought to do.

I'm sorry my little anecdote didn't satisfy you.

traceroute66 3 days ago||
> I'm sorry my little anecdote didn't satisfy you.

It wasn't that. Its that you made a reference to the Chinese surveillance state in the same post. Your example didn't fit the evil-bogeyman narrative you were aiming for.

Sorry if I was unclear there.

InsideOutSanta 3 days ago||
> Your example didn't fit the evil-bogeyman narrative you were aiming for

What in the world are you talking about. If anything, I wasn't sure if recollecting that anecdote was minimizing the harm of being surveilled constantly. The last thing I expected was being accused of an "evil-bogeyman narrative."

> Sorry if I was unclear there.

Yes, thanks for clarifying. Now I understand that this has nothing to do with me or what I wrote and is 100% projection on your part.

traceroute66 3 days ago||
> What in the world are you talking about.

You used the words "If you're going to be surveilled 24/7, at least you gotta make it work for you."

The implication being quite clear you were inferring it was only possible in China's surveillance state, when it was not.

How about we cordially agree to disagree and move on ?

InsideOutSanta 2 days ago|||
> The implication being quite clear you were inferring it was only possible in China's surveillance state, when it was not.

Jesus fucking Christ.

Asooka 3 days ago||||
Last time I did that, I called my phone from my friend's phone, asked the driver to come back, and paid him for the trip.
InsideOutSanta 3 days ago||
Her phone doesn't ring.
aitchnyu 3 days ago|||
> figure out how to call the driver

Which country are you in where you cant take "call the driver" for granted?

smw 3 days ago|||
Going from license plate to phone number would be one hell of an endeavor in most US states.
axus 3 days ago||
I expect the US police to have this capability; < 1% expectation that they would share it with a random citizen who walked in.
taneq 3 days ago||
“Powerless to help you, not powerless to harm you.”
InsideOutSanta 3 days ago|||
I don't quite understand the question. If she had had her phone, she could have called the driver using the information from the didi app, but she had no phone, so she didn't know who to call.
taneq 3 days ago||
Herself, I’d have thought.
InsideOutSanta 3 days ago||
Her phone doesn't ring.
yogthos 3 days ago||||
They can enjoy tech because people see tech improving every aspect of their lives. Nowhere in the the world have people ever seen the rate of technological progress that people in China have. Imagine going from having practically no electronics, to everyone having a cellphone, self driving cars, high speed rail across the whole country, drone delivery, and so on. Naturally, people who've seen technology dramatically improve every aspect of their lives would be optimistic that further technological progress will bring even better life.

Meanwhile, in the west, the standard of living has been eroding for the majority of the population. Technological progress is associated with layoffs, loss of agency at the workplace, and diminishing life prospects. So, it's no surprise that there is growing opposition to AI.

AuthAuth 2 days ago||
I can imagine it because the same thing has happened in my life time. The difference for me is that the tech isnt used to suffocate any of my human rights.
yogthos 2 days ago||
Tech in China isn't used to suffocate anybody's human rights either. In fact, more people in China see their country as being democratic than in America according to the latest Democracy Perception Index from the Alliance of Democracies Foundation.

https://allianceofdemocracies.org/democracy-perception-index

What makes this report interesting is that the organization publishing it was started by an ex-NATO chief and claims to unite democracies, meaning Western liberal style democracies. So it can’t be accused of having some sort of anti-Western bias. Their methodology is also straightforward, where they simply ask people if they feel their government works in their interest and whether they can hold it accountable. That’s the whole ballgame, because if people don’t believe the system is democratic then it inherently lacks legitimacy no matter what the constitution says. While people will surely attack this methodology, the sheer fact that a NATO-connected group published such a report gives its claims a certain credence given how dire these results are for the Western model of democracy. France now ranks alongside Kazakhstan, Yemen, and Zimbabwe in its own citizens’ eyes while the U.S. is split down the middle with about half of Americans saying they don’t think they live in a democracy anymore. China, on the other hand, sits up there with the Scandinavians and Switzerland, and Chinese people overwhelmingly say the system works for them. Notably, we can also see that perceptions of transparency, rule of law, and free speech are on the rise across the board in China.

And before you start trying to claim that people in China are simply afraid to speak their mind, the same report shows Russia at -21 points and Belarus at -9, so that whole excuse falls apart. Turns out that people living in states the West labels as being authoritarian do, in fact, complain when they’re unhappy.

Various other western publications have reported the same thing for many years.

https://www.tbsnews.net/world/china-more-democratic-america-...

https://www.newsweek.com/most-china-call-their-nation-democr...

https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-Pacific/2021/0218/Vilif...

Turns out the US is the place where human rights are actually being suffocated.

ngl999 2 days ago||
> Tech in China isn't used to suffocate anybody's human rights either

Explain the mass uploading of secret screen recordings in more than ten phone brands sold in China in a component called SystemHelper, disclosed in the past few days, including but not limited to Xiaomi, Samsung, OPPO.

yogthos 2 days ago||
Ah yes, because American companies absolutely do not vacuum up all your data. Also, big news to me that Samsung is Chinese.
ngl999 2 days ago||
Whataboutism, so predictable.

Also, read again what I said, 'sold in China'.

Does it hurt so much when your fantasy turns out to be fake?

Oh, and you haven't explained the uploading. Maybe your last visit to onlyfans is now in a server, you know.

yogthos 2 days ago||
Screeching whataboutism is what low intellect individuals do to justify applying a double standard. What Chinese companies do in China is basically the same thing that Americans do in the US and everywhere else. Yet, people claim America is a free country. So, apply the same logic to China?

If you need to be explained why companies like to harvest customer data, then what else is there to say about you.

ngl999 2 days ago||
First, work on your English before embarrassing yourself in public.

Second, work on your logic skills before embarrassing yourself in public.

Third, you still have not explained why recording phone screens and uploading the recording without telling the phone owners is not 'suffocating anybody's human rights'.

yogthos 2 days ago||
[flagged]
ngl999 1 day ago||
[flagged]
ngl999 3 days ago||||
This is why Baidu's CEO can shamelessly claim Chinese people are willing to trade privacy for convenience years ago.

EDIT: typo

derac 4 days ago|||
That makes a lot of sense.
xlayn 2 days ago||
sure, but as soon as you don't find Qwen3.8 27B there you know what's the TLDR.
maelito 3 days ago||
Another model, another broken website. I can't even zoom on the benchmarks.

Le cordonnier mal chaussé.

areoform 3 days ago||
[flagged]
tomhow 3 days ago||
Please don't post inflammatory rhetoric comparing the relative merits of nation states on HN. The guidelines make it clear we're trying for something better here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
neuronexmachina 3 days ago|||
With China's Announcement 48 (export restrictions on AI), I'm not sure how much longer that will continue for open-weight models. It includes a number of areas of biomedicine as covered technologies. It's not clear if a model capable of doing such biomedical research would be considered as Prohibited/Restricted from Export.
tancop 3 days ago|||
Open weight models that fall under Restricted get an automatic license. The only prohibited category that applies to model weights is training on "core national data", meaning specific non public datasets designated by the state. Everything else is about full agent systems.
neuronexmachina 3 days ago||
Do you have a source for that? I hadn't realized that was the case.
solyin 3 days ago|||
The more interesting export out of China is their prohibition against companies that provide users with an emotional relationship with an AI entity.
fhn 3 days ago|||
In America, AI companies get sued because people died asking AI questions.
collingreen 3 days ago||
Oof that's a nasty way to characterize the people who ended up killing themselves after falling into a proverbial hole talking to these companys' products during mental crisis.

You can feel like companies have no responsibility for how their products are used but it might be worth showing some grace to the people who are dead now by not trying to downplay what happened to them by implying it was just like everyone else's experience of "asking ai questions".

dutchbart 3 days ago||
Not sure if the comment was regarding the suicides. That would be a bit gruesome. But the US had been known to judge in favor of people being stupid and suing the company. Specifically this case comes to mind: https://abc7.com/amp/post/socal-woman-sues-starbucks-spilled...

But also cases like the 2 girls suing Snapchat and settling for unknown amounts of money.

cannonpalms 3 days ago||
That woman's labia fused as a result of coffee that internal emails showed they knew was frequently hotter than was safe.
zozbot234 3 days ago||
This involved drive-through service, just like the 1994 McDonalds coffee case. Perhaps businesses should just refuse to serve hot coffee via such a drive through, since it stands to reason that people who happen to be sitting in a car will be quite likely to spill their drink in a dangerous way.
trucks-refinish 3 days ago||
or they could just not serve coffee that's so hot that it melts your flesh
beambot 3 days ago|||
And cloning video games -- because apparently that's now on par with bioweapons when it comes to societal harm...
miohtama 3 days ago||
Copyright is the highest virtue of the society.

Oh, wait…

VulgarExigency 3 days ago|||
> It's so bizarre to watch China embrace the wonders of science and technology, while certain American startups and communities repeat "WHAT ABOUT THE BIOWEAPONS?"

It shouldn't be. China is the closest thing to a technocracy the world has.

solyin 3 days ago|||
> "WHAT ABOUT THE BIOWEAPONS?"

I wonder how much Covid conspiracy theories play into this. If you've already been accused of making bioweapons, and the world had to shut down for three years because of them, then what's the worst that could happen to you? People accusing you of doing it again? The people that hate you already hate you, they can't really hate you and harder.

Meanwhile, in the fear based economy that America has, OpenAI is running scared of the possiblity of headlines that they helped terrorists or a high school shooter in some way. In the case of rape, we've maybe moved the conversation past "well she shouldn't have been wearing that" to "they shouldn't be raping" but in cases involving AI, we're still at the "well, what was the chatbot wearing?" stage of things.

whoanoway 3 days ago||
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ngl999 3 days ago|||
China is projecting an external image as a technocracy.
atwrk 3 days ago|||
Have you been to China? Compared to European or US cities, it's like visiting the future. I'm writing this in a 350 kph passenger train that arrived right on the second.
ngl999 3 days ago|||
If you really think so, you are deceived by the good old Chinese trick of showing you a good looking fake side, not totally fake, but extremely positively biased image.

You need to go deeper into the country to learn what's really there, but of course, the government will do anything to stop you from doing so. So you don't see it anyway.

EDIT: missed the in the train part. Could you tell us how easy it is to get access to the real Internet without using your foreign data plan?

somenameforme 3 days ago|||
You're speaking of two different things. China is a technocracy, but they also try to optimize for social outcomes. For instance there was recently an amusing crackdown on niang pao [1] - 'girly guns' or 'sissy men' in media, because they felt that media featuring effeminate men was imperiling traditional Chinese culture, gender norms, and so forth. In this sort of context extensive censorship is 100% expected.

Technocracy comes with good and bad things. For instance Chinese stop lights now feature refueling stations atop them for autonomous drones to operate indefinitely. But of course those drones will be used for domestic surveillance and other such things. So they're creating 1984, while we create Brazil. [2]

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niang_pao

[2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazil_(1985_film)

ngl999 3 days ago||
I don't disagree. But I'd also say that the attitude toward the techno- part in technocracy is purely pragmatic. Tech stuff, be it skill, knowledge or any kind of philosophy that grows out of them, is only viewed as an means to an end.

The core of the idea is still certain people trying hard to keep their social status, not tech.

Therefore, there is no inherent intention to develop tech, always to the next level. The world should not count on this to hope to have a better future.

somenameforme 3 days ago||
One reason I think Machiavellianism is dumb is because the grand utopia people hope to achieve never come to pass, yet all the awful actions they do in the mean time most certainly do. And I also view this in the opposite way. I do not agree with you about Chinese leadership having ulterior motivations, but I'd say that even if they did it wouldn't be a problem.

When they're engaged in actions that are uplifting the lives of hundreds of millions and making the world an overall better place, I couldn't really care less if there's some grand evil scheme behind the curtain. I'd be rather happy to see a world filled with 'evil' people doing good things, than the current reality we live in filled with 'good' people doing evil things.

We should judge people much more by what they do, instead of by the rhetoric or inferred intent, because the former is all that matters.

ngl999 3 days ago||
This one I do disagree. It is hard to recognize what is going on in people's mind but it doesn't mean one should disregard it. Because the motivation decides the long term outcome, what seems to be uplifting might well become agonizing in near term like the other reply in this thread said, the tech is so intrusive that people can't get rid of it. Like the recently exposed massive uploading of screen recordings in Xiaomi and a bunch of other phones, there's nothing much that can be done to undo this kind of crap to actually uplift people's lives.
somenameforme 3 days ago||
Motivation doesn't decide anything. Actions decide the long term outcome of actions.

And the things you're mentioning are non sequiturs similar to the initial point. China (and the US and most of every major power) is a surveillance state. That has nothing to do with whether or not they are uplifting the lives of people. Uplifting while protecting the privacy of individuals would be ideal, but that's an ideal that unfortunately does not exist anywhere.

ngl999 2 days ago||
Motivation decides, at least partially, action, here's the missing link that should be considered, in my opinion.
autuni 3 days ago|||
you can apply the same to basically any big country that tries to project it's power and image to their advantage, that's not a Chinese thing.
ngl999 2 days ago||
Well, even if every big country is doing this, it'd still be fool to fall for that. And it'd still be fool to not point that out.
autuni 2 days ago||
that's a good point, I just notice that most people single out China and ignore everyone else, which I find concerning. I agree it still makes sense to point it out.
Asooka 3 days ago|||
Yes, a dystopian future of censorship and human rights abuses. If that's the price of progress, no thanks. I'd rather have an AI that is slightly less capable than it could be, than a totalitarian regime that is actively abusing me
irjustin 3 days ago|||
overall, i'd say it's working.
ngl999 3 days ago||
But it's all hollow.
burntpineapple 3 days ago|||
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StopTencent 3 days ago|||
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fooqux 3 days ago||
> It's so bizarre to watch China embrace the wonders of science and technology, while certain American startups and communities repeat "WHAT ABOUT THE BIOWEAPONS?"

Eh, I'm reasonably certain it's not altruism. It's another form of competition with the US companies and I'm thankful for it while it lasts.

thefourthchime 3 days ago||
PacBench results.

Tencent Hy4 ties DeepSeek V4.1 Flash at 82/100, in 23.2 min for $0.30 vs 20.1 min for $2.26. Same game quality for about a seventh of the price. Cheap models keep closing the gap.

Model: https://jonclegg.github.io/pacman-bakeoff/#tencent-hy4

Closest: https://jonclegg.github.io/pacman-bakeoff/#deepseek-v4.1-fla...

trinsic2 2 days ago|
Yeah.. I totally trust them with my data (Not)
bel8 2 days ago|
> Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html