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Posted by kristianp 3 days ago

Nasdaq plummets 4% into correction territory(www.cnbc.com)
227 points | 185 commentspage 2
paxy 2 days ago|
Tuesday - "Market falls because of election"

Wednesday - "Market soars because of election"

Thursday - "Market plummets because of election"

Can we at least agree that no one has any idea what is going on?

delecti 2 days ago||
All of them can be true, while still not providing any predictive utility.
bagacrap 2 days ago||
And they can all be false. GP's point is that the reporting always suggests causation when causation is rarely if ever knowable.
ricksunny 2 days ago|||
Everyday “Our newspaper makes money by editorializing every tick change in the [$index] market by attributing unverifiable context and not referencing the previous tick we editorialized.”
mancerayder 2 days ago|||
The trick with news media is the word As.

"Market drops 3% as Foo"

fauigerzigerk 2 days ago|||
OK, they are jumping up and down but they're doing it in the most efficient way possible. It has been proven time and time again!
233mhz 2 days ago||
[flagged]
johnsimer 2 days ago|||
What about black dudes, asian dudes, or other other colors of rich dudes? What would you say the stock market is for them?
roodypoo2 2 days ago||||
Please go back to Reddit
mancerayder 2 days ago|||
Reddit has entered the chat.

Thanks to whoever added that sub, now we have rubbish like this.

233mhz 8 hours ago||
Oh no you're not in your little developer bubble and the real world is catching up with you, cry me a river lmao
momocowcow 2 days ago||
We’re back to the same level as 6 months ago. Super scary stuff
ambicapter 2 days ago|
[flagged]
10xDev 3 days ago||
No new frontier (Astra / Fable) releases in a while. Actually none since the “pacing the frontier” post. Safety maxxers might cause an AI winter if this is what’s holding them back.
runako 3 days ago||
> No new frontier (Astra / Fable) releases in a while.

Am I crazy? Wasn't Astra released just over a month ago? And wasn't Fable 5.1 released around the same time?

How often do we expect frontier models to be released?

paimapi 3 days ago||
GPT-5.6 Sol was July 9 > GPT-6 Sol was September 22 (75 days)

Fable 5 was June 9 > Fable 5.1 was September 1 (85 days)

Opus 5 was July 24 > Opus 5.5 was September 22 (61 days)

Yeah, we're not due for a model refresh until the end of month if current release roadmaps of 2-3 months hold.

m_w_ 2 days ago||
Leaks, for what they're worth, indicate that the next GPT model is soon (tomorrow rumored), and that Fable 5.5 is already ready-to-go. That said Fable is likely being held to drown out said GPT release, since Anthropic is already ahead w/ Opus 5.5.
jLaForest 3 days ago|||
even if frontier AI development stops where it is today, i would have a hard time calling this an AI winter. I cant imagine AI wont be a major part of my dayjob for the forseeable future
cavemandaveman 3 days ago||
Presumably it's more directly the fear of data center projects being blocked
Tadpole9181 3 days ago||
> Plummets

Still +4% YoY.

24/7 sensationalist news is just exhausting.

dcrazy 3 days ago||
+4% YoY and -4% in a day are vastly different in timescale.
nothercastle 3 days ago|||
And at 4% suddenly not keeping up with inflation or treasuries
Tadpole9181 3 days ago||||
Intel lost 50% of its value in a week. But it's up 50% from last year.

Anyone paying attention knows the market is in a weird place, and large swings today are the small swings of the past. It's hardly a "plummet" when the amortized line for the past month, including today, is mostly a linear decline.

We've had a couple of single-day 4% drops over the past few months too. Oh no, the market is the lowest it's been in... 3 months!? This is the largest decline we've seen in... 4 months!?

Could it be a market correction? Could it be a full-on collapse? Sure.

But is a single 4% drop worth a headline "plummeting into correction territory"? Not really.

kgwgk 3 days ago||
> Could it be a market correction?

That term has a very specific meaning in that context.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_correction

[ For the record, the link I originally included: https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/stock-market-today-dow-sp-5... ]

Tadpole9181 3 days ago||
JSYK, that's a paywalled link.
overfeed 2 days ago|||
Ironic, how some people act like they don't understand gradients when it comes to AI-related share prices.
thomassmith65 3 days ago|||
Reporting on the stock market generally is overwrought (stocks always "soar!", "plummet!", "rocket!") because the kind of typical events are inherently repetitive. Sports reporting is the same.

That said, the Nasdaq hasn't seen a lot of -4.8% days recently. This particular article isn't egregious.

paulpauper 3 days ago|||
Agree. it's not that big of a deal. i will be buying dip
bagacrap 2 days ago||
Why were you in cash to begin with?
zamadatix 3 days ago|||
Seriously, according to the headlines I've seen shared here since June you'd think the market got wiped out 5 or 6 times.

This is a bigger jump, but it's also immediately after elections and other activity so I'd expect higher volatility than normal.

bagacrap 2 days ago||
> Still +4% YoY.

Do you think people who buy QQQ are impressed with this?

VTV is up 21% yoy btw.

bjourne 2 days ago||
Great! The false belief that stocks must endlessly increase in value is a cancer on society. More wealth for the billionaire class does not mean more wealth for you.
sowbug 2 days ago||
By "value," do you mean real or nominal?
bagacrap 2 days ago|||
Many stocks cost less than $1B. I own a few of them myself.
nonethewiser 16 hours ago||
Speak for yourself.
burger_moon 2 days ago||
Would paying for the interconnections and transmission infra have been cheaper than the sum of value lost to the market in one day?
paxy 2 days ago|
What does "sum of value lost" mean?

Yesterday Nvidia's market cap was 4.89T. Today it is $4.45T. What happened to the $440 billion? Do you think we could have built factories with it?

somewhereoutth 2 days ago|||
Stocks are priced on the margin, which means the last sale sets the price, and so the market cap for the whole float. The $440B never really existed. But it could have been used as collateral for loans which would turn it into 'real' money. However when the price falls, those loans may be called in, and so the 'real' money is destroyed. If these loans have to be be paid off by selling the stock, then we enter a deleveraging spiral.

Theoretically the market cap should equal the present value of expected future returns (dividends and buybacks, not speculation), modulo risk, but that assumes a perfect market.

bagacrap 2 days ago||
> Theoretically the market cap should equal the present value of expected future returns

Did you just wake up from a 30 year nap or?

fauigerzigerk 2 days ago||||
I doubt it would have stopped politicians from exploiting the issue, but the answer to your question is yes. Companies could have spent more money on energy infrastructure, which would have increased their cost and - all other things being equal - lowered their share price.

That said, a lower share price is not a cost to the company, except perhaps in terms of stock based compensation.

burger_moon 2 days ago|||
If the market cap is based on future earnings growth (forward thinking) and those earnings are now couched by a lose of ability to build data centers then these tech companies could have issued shared or offered bonds to build out the interconnections they require. So, yes.
elmer2 2 days ago||
[flagged]
eli_gottlieb 2 days ago||
I remember the Biden years being quite good for finding a job, and the Trump years being quite bad.
thephyber 2 days ago|||
This is revisionism.

It's a "shitty economy" today because

(1) Interest rates were generationally low for an extended period of time from 2009 - 2022. We will likely never see that kind of sugar rush again in our lifetimes.

(2) Trump made a deal with OPEC+ during the early days of Covid to drastically cut supply for some fixed time interval. That agreement hurt our economy coming out of Covid.

(3) Consumers completely changed their behaviors and the supply chain had lots of random kinks in the flow of goods. Some countries still maintained closed borders. Ports had months log backlogs of ships waiting to offload cargo as shipping containers were in short supply where they were needed.

(4) The price of eggs and pork were massively inflated because of avian+swine flu outbreaks which we normally deal with by killing the entire flock.

(5) The west coast had a massive drought and a terrible fire season. This was awful for farming/ranching and we still haven't rebuilt the cow herds that shrunk from those years.

(6) Capitalism demands constant efficiency improvements. If they can avoid a full time hire by instead using independent contractors, they will. If they can create an industry of gig workers instead of long term contracts, they will. The entire economy has been rebalancing risk and uncertainty on the backs of workers and away from companies. This causes all sorts of drops in quality of life, consumer sentiment, financial security among the society.

Biden's regulatory regime had almost nothing to do with the efficiency of the economy during his term. Just because he didn't open more of Alaska's wilderness to fresh drilling or because he didn't approve the KeyStone XL pipeline didn't have any noticeable effect on the US economy (except perhaps to keep some more truck drivers employed).

goatlover 2 days ago|||
His "radical base" would be centrists in Europe and Canada. It's so annoying to constantly her right-wingers denounce the Democratic party as being overrun by "radical leftists" when it's mostly a moderate neoliberal party with some progressive and more recent DSA types. And the Democrat's economic policies are normal ones in most advanced economies. Bernie and AOC are basically the 21st century equivalent of FDR.
jayGlow 2 days ago||
the American economy is stronger than both Canada and the EU. the US consistently has more growth and GDP per capita than Europe. what defines something as an advanced economy?
zbentley 2 days ago||
Macroeconomic strength is famously … let’s say “only tenuously correlated” with things like quality of life, social mobility, household-level economic stability, and lots of other aspects of social welfare (e.g. education, health risks and access to treatment, sustainable demographic trends and infrastructure practices).

I’m not saying Europe is automatically better on those axes, but even the least charitable assessments have it very competitive with the US on several.

All of which is to say: “well if our politics are so backwards how come we have so much economic/military power?” is a structurally useless question to ask, because those things are not correlates the way people think they are. It’s like asking “if your car is so much safer than mine, how come mine is so much faster?”

jasonmp85 2 days ago|||
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jdlshore 2 days ago||
> The end result was the start of the shitty economy and job market we see today.

The current economy being Biden’s fault, and not tariffs, corrupt tax cuts for the rich, and oil blockades, is certainly a take.

Judging by the recent elections, I’d say most US voters don’t agree with that take.

Vaslo 3 days ago|
[flagged]
goatlover 2 days ago||
Too bad there wasn't more right-wing resistance to the war in Iran.
IAmGraydon 2 days ago||
Interesting. So how do you explain yesterday? The market just wanted to pause for a day?