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Posted by ChrisArchitect 1 day ago

US FAA says it will phase out floppy disks from air traffic control by 2028(www.reuters.com)
402 points | 324 commentspage 3
adamsb6 1 day ago|
wow never thought i would outlast them
bvan 1 day ago||
I just hope they are not replacing the system with Claude
Perz1val 1 day ago|
... and make it safe
tonymet 23 hours ago||
I'm more interested with the data integrity protections before the data got onto the floppy, and why those protocols (e.g. signature verification) couldn't be completed via email at the endpoint.
snvzz 1 day ago||
Replacing the drives with FlashFloppy would not be a crazy idea as a first step.
Jtsummers 23 hours ago|
You're going to run that on a computer from the late 1980s or early 1990s? And how do you get the data onto those computers when they're not connected to a network, or the same network, as your other systems?
snvzz 2 hours ago||
Are we talking about the same thing?[0]

0. https://github.com/keirf/flashfloppy

roundup 22 hours ago||
Can we phase out pennies instead?
smjy_studio 19 hours ago||
[flagged]
tencentshill 1 day ago||
I don't want the FAA to make changes at "lightning speed" or "rapidly moving to make upgrades" or "record pace". Safety must be further down the list for these guys.
p-e-w 1 day ago||
Using outdated computer systems with aging storage media is a safety issue.
1970-01-01 1 day ago|||
No, it isn't. This is time tested process. Find me any flight that had to land or crashed because the floppy disk was broken.
Jtsummers 1 day ago|||
I've worked on systems this decade that still relied on floppy disks. It's getting harder and harder for them to operate because the disks are getting rarer, as are the drives. And often the essential component is not the disk itself. There are some other computers in the system that cannot be upgraded to any more recent device, systems from the 1980s and 1990s that force them to continue using a floppy disk.

If it was just two modern computers and transferring data between them, the floppy disk would have been dropped in a heartbeat. But it's the old computers still in the critical path that are holding everything back. And those are really hard to maintain. Last year we phased out a system that was dependent on computers from the mid-1990s, getting replacement parts was practically impossible, they mostly just don't exist. You'd buy old systems off ebay and hope that they had enough working parts to scavenge, and the right working parts.

EDIT: Light editing because I had some extra words.

jasomill 1 day ago||
Old habits die hard.

There was a time when the company I was working for was selling service contracts for DEC TZ30 tape drives to DEC itself because their own internal service organization was unwilling or unable to support them.

The application was software distribution, most likely to customers they were contractually obligated to support, and no newer drives were able to write the required tape format, so upgrading to newer drives wasn't an option.

drak0n1c 1 day ago||||
Systems are dynamic, not static. There are secondary consequences and forgotten/ignored opportunity costs. Sure, the existing system has proven workarounds, though labor and attention intensive. When a floppy disk fails it won't directly create disaster. But these legacy requirements do block the more cohesive and thorough introduction of additional safety mechanisms that increase redundancy and reduce the scope of possible human error - such as new sensor hardware and their automation, latency improvements, and information synthesis/notification clarity.

Here's a software analogy - required support for very old OS versions often interferes with the scope, simplicity, and security of new feature work, and even if the work is still feasible at that point it is slowed down greatly, eating up attention and time that could go towards addressing other important issues. That accumulates over time, and cumulative loss of improvements that could have otherwise been made has a real effect in unprevented disasters and wasted controller availability.

6SixTy 1 day ago||||
It's both time tested and at risk of ripping at the seams. Floppy disks and the mechanisms still wear. And because neither are still made, the chances of a zero population scenario happening is greater every year.

It's better to test a replacement while you still have the time, than to risk rushing something else.

superxpro12 1 day ago||||
The overall reliability of a system is time invariant... its either reliable, or not.

The fact that it has gone x days without an incident doesnt upgrade or downgrade its reliability. The engineering and processes are function in an equation that calculates mean time to failure. Life-critical processes have numbers placed to this... like a failure every 50 years or 100 years... or 100000 years, and you work towards solving that.

david422 1 day ago|||
Floppy disks aren't manufactured anymore. At some point there aren't going to be any.
ale42 1 day ago||||
Replacing them with cloud-based systems (if this is the "streamlined, 21st-century system") is a safety issue as well. I hope they are not.
Jtsummers 1 day ago||
Fortunately the choice isn't between 1980s hardware with floppy disk requirements and rented servers in someone else's building. There are a lot of options in between those two.
AngryData 23 hours ago||
Yeah but none of those in-between options gets the c-suite massive bonuses because the margins aren't as large so they rarely ever do it.
creatonez 1 day ago|||
Just turn WinRAR error correction up to max /s
adrian_b 1 day ago||
[dead]
erickhill 5 hours ago||
At least floppy disks sitting in storage can't be attacked by an AI swarm. That read/write head, though...
amelius 23 hours ago|
> “We’re moving away from outdated, manual processes and replacing technology that once relied on floppy disks with a modern system that allows controllers to instantly share critical flight alerts, restricted airspace schedules and pilot reports,"

So they make their systems run on the internet now?

What could possibly go wrong?

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