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Posted by microtonal 11 hours ago

Dutch 'idealist' bank ASN blocks non-Google Android, including GrapheneOS(github.com)
592 points | 379 commentspage 6
grigio 3 hours ago|
bye bank
xyst 3 hours ago||
While no longer popular, decentralized banking via cryptocurrency/digital currency would have made unilateral access issues impossible.

Want to access your wallet on the chain? The tech doesn’t give a shit about what device you use. Just present the private key to wallet and access funds.

But alas the tech never took off beyond grifters/scammers and speculators use case. Also, people would rather trade the promise of safety that centralized banking promises (deposit insurance, regulations, access to person that may help resolve lock out issues, …).

brnt 8 hours ago||
To whom it may concern:

There is an alternative to Google's proprietary and unprivate integrity API that every bank now uses (and is at the root cause of this issue):

https://uattest.net

Spread the word.

microtonal 8 hours ago|
Nah. Unified Attestation is an initiative by some some companies that really have terrible security (years old kernels, drivers, firmware, often way behind on Android updates). They are also known for campaigns against GrapheneOS, including astroturfing. They also do a fair amount of eurowashing (in particular Volla, who sell UAE/Chinese phones as a European phone with a markup of hundreds of Euros).

If Unified Attestation would become a standard, they would use it to entrench themselves over GrapheneOS et al.

AOSP has an API for remote attestation attestation. Banks should just come up with a list of signing keys to be trusted. Heck, they can start here:

https://grapheneos.org/attestation.json

ankur_misra 4 hours ago||
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Rilup 5 hours ago||
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athulbc 7 hours ago||
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asanineassasin 7 hours ago||
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ajjahs 8 hours ago||
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sebtron 9 hours ago||
However, ASN is the only Dutch bank that allows you to open and operate an account without owning and iOS or Android-based smartphone.

All other banks only allow you to open an account via their app.

bondarchuk 9 hours ago||
Certainly not true for ABN AMRO, see "Unable to open an account using the app?". Sounds like someone will come by your house to check your ID.

https://www.abnamro.nl/en/personal/payments/open-an-account/...

Incidentally I was happy to see that while they're phasing out their previous cryptographic identification device (that you put your bank card in) they will still support some kind of cryptographic usb dongle (in addition to smartphones).

sebtron 8 hours ago|||
Happy to be proven wrong :)

When I wanted to open a second account a few months back, ABN is the only bank I have not tried because, well, I have my first account with them... I could not find similar option with any other, though.

ath3nd 9 hours ago|||
I confirm that ABN AMRO's "Unable to open an account using the app" in the Netherlands is a procedure where a guy comes to your house to check your ID. I found it a really cool thing in terms of accessibility.
vidarh 8 hours ago||
Your account appears to be shadowbanned (your current comment is visible because people vouched for it). I'm letting you know since looking at your recent comments I can't see any obvious reason. You might want to use the contact link to talk to hn about it.
Freak_NL 9 hours ago|||
Not quite true. All banks really want you to use their app, and the neobanks actually demand it (and get away with it because they are not as important as the so-called system banks).

But look at the pages more carefully, and you'll note that there is a way to open an account using just a web browser too (e.g., look at abnamro.nl). The links are deemphasised by using dark UI patterns of course.

ING is being really dirty about this. It should be possible to open an account, and get the OTP hardware device that reads the chip on the debit card, but they don't document how you can open an account without the app. It's probably possible, as existing customers can bank without the app, but you will probably have to call them.

Banks would love to get rid of all those nasty people without approved smartphones, but that would cause political pushback.

jsiepkes 7 hours ago|||
Thats simply not true. If I want to open an account I can go to a Rabobank office and open an account. There are still plenty of Rabobank offices around. I can also access all features (even pay with Wero / iDeal) via my Rabobank scanner on my desktop via their website.
Markoff 7 hours ago||
> All other banks only allow you to open an account via their app.

TIL all Dutch banks (except ASN) closed all their branches and you can't register new account in the branch, what a progressive society it must be...

flexagoon 5 hours ago||
That's not true. I opened my ABN AMRO account in their branch last year.
Markoff 2 hours ago||
sarcasm is lost on some...
flexagoon 29 minutes ago||
My bad, I genuinely heard people say ABN AMRO closed all their branches for some reason so I assumed you thought so as well
100111011111 6 hours ago|
Well guess why they do that, they're not taking your freedrums, Americans, this is a legitimate anti fraud framework step, dont ask, I work in payment processing.

This.is.a.good.decision

hedora 5 hours ago|
The EU banks are mandating that all their systems be backdoored by Google.

Trump has started forcing US companies to deplatform people in Europe that he does not like. This is not a legitimate anti-fraud step.