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Posted by rdmuser 4 hours ago

As the Japanese countryside empties out, wildlife is disappearing(e360.yale.edu)
69 points | 43 comments
smallnix 4 hours ago|
Isn't this because humans killed and took the role of large grazing animals and large predators? After some time this can result in a new equilibrium, and when humans move out it's chaos again for a while. Question is not if nature will deal with it, but rather what we humans want — probably not some ecological desert for millenia.
bemtevi 2 hours ago||
I read the study. The "problem" with it is that it only examines biodiversity before and after abandonment, but without the abandoned areas being rewilded in any way.

Some areas are so destroyed by human activities that they need some help in rewilding, which is definitely possible. Of course, this study does point out that some management of the land that resembles previous human activities could help biodiversity. And of course, as the study mentions, they did not include "Mosses, lichens, mammals and invertebrates—including soil organisms such as nematodes and molluscs".

Keep in mind also that biodiversity is difficult to measure can be counterintuitive. Farmland and managed land creates edge habitats, or a confluence of habitats, where measured biodiversity is higher. Of course, when that edge habitat disappears the measurements can go down. But that does not imply that merging a huge number of farmland back ot a more contiguous wild are won't support biodiversity better in the long run.

cloudbonsai 1 hour ago|
[dead]
michael1999 3 hours ago||
Every ecosystem on the planet besides recent settlements like Hawaii or Antarctica are co-evolved with human beings. "Pristine wildness" is almost always a myth.
aaron425 2 hours ago||
That’s a strong assertion. It was less of a myth 200 years ago (prior to the Industrial Revolution) and even less of one further back.

People may have generally existed in these regions, but the scope of ecological impact & evolutionary pressure is more recent.

ctkhn 45 minutes ago|||
That's not totally true. The way we have lived since the 1950s has made a lot of difference. Even where people have lived for a long time, highways and major roads since 1950 in terms of danger are a step change (or two) compared to earlier roads and have essentially walled off areas from wildlife traveling between them.
anfilt 41 minutes ago||
The thing is a lot of these rural areas were farms before 1950 or if we got back further before even the Meji Restoration in Japan.

It's actually more of a recent phenomenon that a lot these small villages and towns now becoming basically vacant in Japan.

People have been in Japan for many thousands of years at this point.

mschuster91 1 hour ago|||
> "Pristine wildness" is almost always a myth.

Which is half true, half not.

If you re-introduce certain keystone species, the rest follows automatically - the most well-known and well-studied example being the wolf in Yellowstone [1].

[1] https://www.yellowstonepark.com/things-to-do/wildlife/wolf-r...

freecodeio 1 hour ago||
what?
CapitalistCartr 1 hour ago||
Before so many people, Japans open wet habitats were mostly floodplains, with rivers that flooded and shifted around the way rivers do. Those rivers are now dammed, channelized, the floodplains are cities and fields, much the same as in the Eastern US. Rice paddies became the wetland for frogs, fireflies, dragonflies,wading birds. If the paddies go to forest, those species don’t return to floodplains, because the floodplains no longer exist.
gwerbin 4 hours ago||
I suspect this is the opposite in areas of the USA that have seen population declines. There is virtually nowhere in the USA in the 2020s that looks like, say, Ogimachi Village. And even in, say, the 1920s, so much forest had been cut for agriculture, logging, mining, and soon thereafter for the first suburbs, that I can't imagine human development had any positive effects whatsoever on wildlife or biodiversity.
bryanlarsen 3 hours ago||
I wonder how much this is a factor of time. After significantly more than 1500 years of intensive human management, the ecology of Japan's countryside will have evolved for those conditions. America's ecology has not had a similar amount of time to adapt to the loss of the giant bison herds, et cetera.
anfilt 37 minutes ago||
I would probably agree Japans country side was populated and farmed to a larger degree than in the US.

While there definitely was some groups of people/tribes who farmed the land historically. In the US definitely was a smaller amount compared to Japan during that stretch of time before even the USA was around.

cucumber3732842 3 hours ago||
I's not that simple. Look at New England. Initially de-populated and left to grow over thanks to western agriculture then intentionally key that way by environmental policy. It's not inching toward anything resembling pre-colombian forests. It's turning into an impenetrable thicket. But hey, plenty of food for the asian long horned beetles and gypsy moths so that's a win. /s

There's a lot of bits of biodiversity you don't get without humans putting their thumb on the scale and forcing a different equilibrium.

traceroute66 3 hours ago||
I can't help wondering if their consideration of climate change as a covariate factor has been rigorous enough.

Climate change is happening everywhere but it is quite noticeable in Japan with summers getting hotter and winters getting milder.

csdreamer7 2 hours ago|
California and North Carolina too. Back when I lived in Socal; we would have at two weeks of heavy rain during April-May with flooding. Now it's only a few days of lighter rain. The air used to be very dry since it would be so cold. Now it is becoming more humid before I left.

Raleigh used to have more snowy winters from what I was told. Now a days winters have a 1 in 4 chance of giving snow you might see in the morning for most of the area.

zug_zug 4 hours ago||
Seems counter-intuitive and definitely warrants research to understand the mechanism. The most unintuitive part being local plants not returning.
zdragnar 4 hours ago||
The article mentions rice paddies, which tend to be almost entirely artificial constructs. It makes sense that if they aren't being maintained anymore, the species that relied on that maintenance would struggle.

Likewise, I don't know if Japan has to deal with wildly aggressive invasive species like I am right now with buckthorn, but there's lots of plants that will simply choke out most others and aren't very beneficial. If nobody's around anymore and they were actively grooming the pastures and such, that will also put a ton of pressure on previously flourishing species.

Tade0 3 hours ago||
I believe the Japanese Knotweed fulfills that function.
bevr1337 2 hours ago|||
I highly recommend Robin Wall Kimmer's Braiding Sweetgrass. She reckons academia and science with indigenous knowledge.
gwerbin 4 hours ago||
What was the primeval state of these places, and how long has it been since it looked like that?
qayxc 3 hours ago||
Nobody knows. I'm serious - nobody knows. Japan has been populated by humans since prehistoric times; plenty of time for people and wildlife to adapt and coevolve. Hard to imagine there's a way to extrapolate that far back in time.
silverFork 3 hours ago||
The problem is apparently the tall bamboo that is taking over and not letting native tree to grow. This bamboo does not have home grown competition although it is a native bamboo. The who thing probably needs some sort of automated tilling and panting or imported workers to remove the the giant bamboo and farm it somehow perhaps.
fusslo 3 hours ago|
why do you say that?

I didn't see it in the article nor the 2025 study https://www.nature.com/articles/s41893-025-01578-w

Additionally, the article points to Spain and Lake Constance in the Alps exhibiting similar effects.

silverFork 3 hours ago||
I looked at few documents about japan and I believe it was conclusive.

https://www.nippon.com/en/articles/-/14855

I will look up spain when I get time and get back to you. I have to be somewhere now.

shoobiedoo 1 hour ago||
This is surprising to hear. I lived in very remote kyushu for years and saw an incredible amount of wildlife. Badgers, hare, foxes, wild boar, deer, racoons (tanuki), monkeys. Roadkill everywhere all the time.
fguerraz 3 hours ago|
Give it 20 more years, it takes time for ecosystems to rebuild.
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