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Posted by arbayi 23 hours ago

Outbound SIP calling is now available to all organizations(developers.openai.com)
70 points | 58 comments
47282847 4 minutes ago|
Small reminder from Germany: I’ve been using my mobile number since early 2000s, provide it as contact info in lots of places and sign up forms, and have received maybe 10 spam SMS overall, and less than 1 spam/callcenter call per year.

I reported an obvious fraud call to the authorities once per web form, and they followed up about two weeks later thanking me for my submission and that they banned the number block and company behind it.

Strict regulation and enforcement works.

ocd 21 hours ago||
More than a few places won't even recognize VoIP numbers as legitimate primary numbers, and this will only make it worse. I'm not surprised an organization tied to Microsoft is going to ruin another thing I like.
viraptor 21 hours ago|
VoIP numbers are not really a thing. I mean there are pools usually assigned from that other companies are aware of, but it's not enforced. You can buy a custom number and use it if you want. For example I had a residential landline number from my home town assigned and routed to a mobile in another country for better billing when my family wants to call.
ocd 21 hours ago|||
I'm well aware. I've been using VoIP for a long time, but as I said, some services refuse to recognize VoIP numbers as they can query and check. It doesn't matter if the number was ported and originated from a mobile service or landline telephony provider.

Netflix is an example of a company that takes a hardline stance not allowing a VoIP number on an account, even while banks don't seem to care since it's the customer's choice.

viraptor 19 hours ago|||
> It doesn't matter if the number was ported and originated from a mobile service or landline telephony provider.

It still depends on public databases with hopefully-accurate data. I'm registered on Netflix on a number which can make and receive VoIP calls. It's just not a usual VoIP-specific provider. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50401117

UqWBcuFx6NV4r 20 hours ago|||
The comparison with / deferral to banks is not really relevant. Apples and oranges.
LoganDark 20 hours ago||
I'd be curious to hear your justification for why it's so much more important for Netflix to ensure there's a "real" phone number behind the account compared to banks.

(Note: I don't agree with any equivalency or even correlation between phone numbers and legal persons)

direwolf20 17 hours ago||
Netflix could have their access to video content cut off if they don't comply with all the ridiculous power trips of content "rights" owners. Banks only have to comply with actual laws.
LoganDark 16 hours ago||
Banks are required by law to perform KYC. They would otherwise face much greater consequences than Netflix ever would.

Phone numbers are irrelevant for that though, so the only reason banks would think they need it is a false correlation between phone numbers and identities.

Netflix also seems to think phone numbers have something to do with identities. But you'd expect banks to be more serious about verification.

cartoonworld 21 hours ago|||
Yeah but you can easily use an api for HLR lookup and see where it is ported to
viraptor 19 hours ago|||
It's not fully reliable. For example you can have local residential lines that in practice go over VoIP and the provider allows you to use the same account to call out. They'll be classified as just normal landlines. It will vary wildly from place to place, but I think soon the type field in HLR will mostly lose its meaning.

(Just checked my company number, running on a hosted PBX, and it's marked as landline with no extra porting info that would contradict it)

noman-land 20 hours ago|||
What's HLR? Can you explain?
bennettnate5 19 hours ago||
The Home Location Register (HLR) is the telephone-provider-specific database that routes calls coming from other providers; while originally a 2G term (it's HSS in LTE and UDM in 5G), people still just call it a HLR lookup. The actual HLR lookup itself goes to a separate country-wide database that maps phone numbers to the cellular or SIP provider. So, when you place a call, your provider can use that database to then lookup the HLR database and reach out to it to further route your call to that person's specific location.
sjdh76 18 hours ago||
I think you guys havent seen how large corps use/run call centers/BPOs. Indian (legal) call centers rake in billions of $$$ a year. This kind of feature is to try to get a leg into that market. 100% sure enterprise stacks asked for it.
jordemort 20 hours ago||
Is this why I've gotten 7+ spam robocalls in the past 2 days?
dqv 21 hours ago||
That's kind of cool. I hope more companies do this. If I understand it correctly, I can provide my own SIP server, so ChatGPT can join conferences or answer incoming calls.
Arubis 20 hours ago||
This is how we get AI regulations.
soraminazuki 13 hours ago||
Nah, this is just how people will get screwed. Proper regulations will only be introduced if those in power care.
transitorykris 19 hours ago|||
It's time to just stop using the telephone, it's only for scams and mother's day
dofm 17 hours ago||
My phone use dwindled to almost nothing after my father died. I unplugged my landline then because he was the only real person who dialled it.

I very rarely get calls on my mobile; only about one in twenty aren’t scams.

EA-3167 19 hours ago||
Elections are how we get that, but imagine the nonsense we’re all going to have to endure between now and January.
UqWBcuFx6NV4r 20 hours ago||
Oh, Jesus Christ.
opengrass 19 hours ago||
Cancer. You won't talk to a human being anymore, and everyone will block numbers not in contacts.
seanp2k2 19 hours ago||
The FCC and Verizon / ATT / T-Mobile allowed the phone system to be ruined in this country by continuing to route calls for spammers and scammers for decades. It's handfuls of people and organized crime causing the vast majority of the problems. Instead of actually investigating this stuff and shutting it down systemically and throwing these people in prison, they let it get so bad that we're just deciding as a society that we'd rather not have real-time voice communications because the few companies that run them haven't been good stewards of the technology.
pvab3 18 hours ago||
isn't there some application for hardware attestation for calling? Like if I get an iMessage text I know its a real person with an iphone, but no similar system has been applied for phone calls. It can't be that hard for carriers to provide some kind of indication whether a number is an actual phone or not.
ranger_danger 17 hours ago||
There are massive armies of cheap Chinese phone bot farms... I don't think getting spam from a physical phone is any indication there is a real person in the mix.
ranger_danger 7 hours ago|||
> everyone will block numbers not in contacts.

Already been doing that for a solid 20+ years now, ever since PocketPC/Windows Mobile first introduced the feature. But OpenAI getting SIP support is not some great new existential threat... we've had similar APIs for years with services like Twilio.

gib444 16 hours ago||
> and everyone will block numbers not in contacts.

I've had this configured for a while now due to my number being leaked all over the place and getting 4-8 spam calls a day :/

kyleee 21 hours ago||
Hopefully it’ll be possible to use this to dispatch faxes over SIP as well
iAMkenough 21 hours ago|
Is that why I’m suddenly getting fax spam this year?

Every few weeks, it’s either a fake invoice or investment pitch.

Since I receive them as a PDF in an email, I wonder if prompt injection via fax has been done.

Arubis 20 hours ago||
If you’re stateside, anti fax spam laws have more teeth than anti-email spam laws.
iAMkenough 18 hours ago||
That’s honestly more frustrating, given call and SMS spam is more prevalent than fax or email spam for me. Those systems just have better (but not infallible) consumer-side protections.

Get with the times, Congress.

belzebub 18 hours ago|
This might be the worst idea in history.
ranger_danger 7 hours ago|
You know we've had SIP via APIs for close to 20 years already, right?
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