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Posted by edward 11 hours ago

Humans will never again create a project quite like Wikipedia(www.economist.com)
467 points | 410 commentspage 5
mad_ 11 hours ago|
I wonder... not rage bait btw... but PHP was super easy to program. I wonder if things like this are harder to build today. Like, before you could setup a LAMP stack and program a wiki in the time it takes to begin to wrap your head around the current programming paradigms.
StilesCrisis 11 hours ago||
I don't think the languages changed; our minimum standards did. Standing up a bare-minimum user login in PHP for a homework assignment is easy. Now fix all the SQL injection, encrypt the passwords securely, lock down the database, make sure your cookies are always first-party, etc. There's a lot to hold in your head for secure web development in general.
ceejayoz 11 hours ago||
> encrypt the passwords securely

Uh oh.

StilesCrisis 11 hours ago||
Whoops :) Don't forget the salt and hashing steps!
rovr138 11 hours ago|||
It’s not just the code, but the collaboration to write the actual pages.

Regarding PHP, a small wiki or cms was always a starter project back in the day. For sure it’s a good way to wrap your head around a language and project

PHP can hosted in so many places for so cheap. It still has a place, like everything

fluidcruft 11 hours ago|||
Today you can use LLM to get most of that. Whether anyone is willing to commit to the success of a LLM-driven project and a different problem.
crote 11 hours ago|||
No.

Wikipedia became popular despite its programming. Anyone who has ever tried to edit a Wiki page knows its editor is absolute garbage, for example. Want to create your own basic DIY wiki in 2026? Just set up a GitHub Pages which auto-accepts pull requests, you'll be up and running in less than 30 minutes.

Besides, nobody is forcing to to use the current programming paradigms. A classic LAMP stack will still work.

mad_ 11 hours ago|||
Oops, guess it was rage bait. (not OOP btw). I just figured the economist article was about programming. Don't have JS on this computer, so I couldn't read it.
gspr 11 hours ago|||
1) I doubt The Economist is suggesting that technical complexity is the reason they think that something like Wikipedia won't happen again.

2) You still have LAMP, even if the A is now often Nginx and the M Postgres. That stack is at least as easy as back in the day (signed someone who in my teens loved PHP so much that I made CLI utilities and IRC bots with it, auch). But that's besides the point, because several programming languages and web frameworks now come with their own built-in web-server for development, so you don't even need a stack to get started! This part is easier today.

psychoslave 11 hours ago||
A LAMP stack is still possible. Some lean toward alternative "frugal" stacks, like https://learnbchs.org/

It’s not like choice is not there.

bliteben 11 hours ago||
In 2003-2004 the benefit of php was really php.net letting you comment on any function
psychoslave 10 hours ago||
Also here, that’s still an option, and comments are still there and (I guess) open to new entries. So what is the concern pointed at here?
bliteben 8 hours ago||
Just that there wasn't anything else like it at the time. There still kind of isn’t. The reduced context switching of curated questions and answers on the official documentation site is great.
qzagent 9 hours ago||
maybe we dont need a wiki. we needed one when search couldnt summarise anything. now it can, and wikipedia becomes the sources nobody clicks
MadrasThorn 7 hours ago||
Countries have decided the internet is something worth occupying. Any free resource on the internet sadly has its days numbered.
rnd0 11 hours ago||
nor GNU, nor Linux. This is the truth.
Devasta 10 hours ago||
The proposition of starting something like Wikipedia when it first began is volunteers working to create an infinite library, all human knowledge gathered in one place for the benefit of all.

The proposition of starting something like Wikipedia today is unpaid laborers working on a training set for AI for the sole purpose of enriching tech CEOs, a gaggle of freaks who likely don't consider you as part of the same species as them nevermind as someone deserving of rights or accolades for your efforts.

One is volunteering, the other is being taken advantage of.

trimethylpurine 10 hours ago||
I'm glad. Wikipedia has never aligned with scientific philosophers on what is and isn't worth believing (e.g. citation standards). This dissuades many scientists from contributing and universities from trusting the platform. Its ubiquity serves to damage the scientific forum, and empowers not the educated scientist or the layman, but the small wealthy group dictating the rules of citation for their own empowerment and political footing.

AI makes possible a replacement that might be more deeply founded in scientific philosophy, and more strictly curated. Things that humans have proven are very difficult.

zhouzhao 10 hours ago|
>Its ubiquity serves to damage the scientific forum, and empowers not the educated scientist or the layman, but the small wealthy group dictating the rules of citation for their own empowerment and political footing.

Hi, I am having trouble understanding this. Do you have any additional context or articles describing this take?

Kind regards and thank you for your time.

trimethylpurine 9 hours ago||
Sure. Check the Wikipedia rules for citation. Primary sources are all but prohibited. (See Wikipedia for details.)

This violates the principles of empiricism. If I state as a matter of empirical fact that you've asked a question and I refer someone else to your question for viewing as evidence that you did in fact do so, that's what we call a primary source. This is logically the best evidence of a fact, still according to the most modern principles of scientific philosophy. (See Locke, Hume, etc. Or search "scientific empiricism" and follow philosophers into modern time to see that this principle is widely agreed upon in the forum.)

Conversely Wikipedia establishes that it's better for me to instead cite the BBC or other news outlet (secondary source) for their opinion about your question, rather than use a primary source.

Implicitly, contribution is confined to a strict subset of sources, especially those controlled by a small group of corporations and colored by interpretation rather than those exhibiting empirical fact.

More importantly, this is logically unscientific.

mococa 10 hours ago||
We have many others...
joenot443 11 hours ago||
If someone wants to learn to accomplish something tangible in the real world, there's probably no better place than YouTube, TikTok, etc.

Yes there are ads, yes there's slop, and yes it still remains a trove of practical human knowledge which would astound a 1926 American far more than Wikipedia ever did.

Compare the Wiki article with step by step PNGs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-Windsor_knot

To the thousands of examples one can find on YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=tying+a+half+wi...

I love to read and have spent more of my life reading than probably anything else. It's my favorite way to learn. Most people do not love to read and would rather learn from another person.

I think humans will never create another Wikipedia because we're already creating something better. YouTube is just the lucky torchbearer, I think. Now that people know they can film themselves teaching or doing something they're good at, and other people will positively engage and maybe even pay them real money, there's no stopping the firehose.

In 10,000 years I imagine the 2020s will be seen less like the end and more like the beginning of human knowledge sharing.

jcattle 10 hours ago||
This statement is baffling to me.

1. Wikipedia is not wikihow. It is not an aim of wikipedia to teach you how to tie a knot.

2. Youtube does not reward or otherwise provide provenance and incremental improvement.

Look at the revision page for the windsor knot: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Half-Windsor_knot...

There is no mechanism whatsoever on youtube to incrementally improve a video or understanding of a topic.

joenot443 9 hours ago||
> There is no mechanism whatsoever on youtube to incrementally improve a video or understanding of a topic.

Yes there is? You've been able to trim and append end screens for years. Usually when understanding on a topic changes people upload newer videos.

Do you expect the books on your shelf to update every year? What a baffling relationship with media you must have.

> Youtube does not reward or otherwise provide provenance and incremental improvement.

I don't think that Wikipedia rewards provenance either? The "reward" seems to be seeing your own beliefs put to text. I suppose that's what you're getting at?

dfxm12 10 hours ago||
The wikipedia images are incredibly easy to follow for me and I like that it is easy to copy and paste the info or download a copy, search it, annotate it/modify it, etc. Just recently, there was a thread here about different ways to ties your shoes laid out similarly with images. Many people talked about easily trying them out.

Even if you are the type of learner who requires a video to learn, online video platforms, like youtube and tiktok, with ads & overlays when you pause them (and it might be hard to pause while your hands are full of silk...), with no out of the box way to download the videos, autoplay to who knows what next video, etc., are terrible vehicles for that. You can't search or annotate them. The quality varies as you stream it.

Youtube and tiktok will not be better than wikipedia because the primary goal, the raison d'etre, of these products is to make money, track your behavior, sell your data to the highest bidder and show you ads based on it. I'm not naive to the fact that Wikipedia does this, but it's obvious that wikipedia is primarily a collective effort and not a corporate product, and I have more faith in a collective group of people than a tech CEO.

Lastly, a video is a video. It is not another person. A person you can ask questions to, they can offer real time advice. Teaching someone how to tie a tie, your child, grandchild, nephew, etc., learning how to be an adult from a role model, is famously a rite of passage. If you think a video from a company trying to sell you clothes, hosted on Alphabet's servers, is a substitute for another person, especially in this age of AI generated content, I suggest you take a step back and reflect on what human connection really means.

TaLiTr 9 hours ago|||
Learning to tie a necktie ≠ learning how to be an adult.

Not everything (I'd wager most things) requires a human to ask questions to. It's just a process. I learned programming from videos and static documentation a decade before I had a school class with a teacher. The "human connection" didn't make me a better programmer.

joenot443 8 hours ago|||
> Lastly, a video is a video. It is not another person

Was this earnestly your takeaway? I'm not sure you'll find anyone interested in arguing that a video is equivalent to a person.

When I fix snowmobile engines I'd obviously prefer the company of a free and patient instructor showing me on his own machine right in front of me. This is not something that is available, so I settle for videos.

> If you think a video from a company trying to sell you clothes, hosted on Alphabet's servers, is a substitute for another person, especially in this age of AI generated content, I suggest you take a step back and reflect on what human connection really means

Yeah, nobody believes that. A human is a human and a video is a video.

This was a really bizarre strawman, dude, you didn't need to write so much about a position nobody's remotely trying to argue. I would suggest you "take a step back" and reflect on whether you're trying to engage with what was written, or just trying to insert your derision towards a guy who doesn't exist.

cadamsdotcom 4 hours ago||
This author hasn't seen GitHub's crazy growth trajectory.

The amount of open source software - and yes, throwaway projects too - being just .. brought into and handed off to the world .. is beyond staggering. It's already given rise to megaprojects rising at the top of the pile - crazy stuff like Photocraft, which has seen multiple releases a week for months. And we are just getting started.

I find the author's lack of faith disturbing.

Towaway69 9 hours ago|
I personally hope that the world won't ever create a publication like the Economist again.

What a BS sentiment but I guess if money is the only goal in life, then what doesn't make a direct profit isn't worth doing. So yes, if money is the only measure of whether something is worth doing or not, then Wikipedia won't be recreated since the volunteers contributing are not doing it for the money.

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