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Posted by lairv 21 hours ago

Claude Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2(www.anthropic.com)
780 points | 920 commentspage 2
prtmnth 12 hours ago|
Why Fable 5.2 and not 5.5?

My hypothesis - OpenAI and Anthropic are locked in battle. Whoever takes a step, the other one mirrors.

Based on this hypothesis, I think we can expect to see a new Astra model soon given the new Fable release.

And it could be that Anthropic released Fable 5.2 and kept 5.5 in reserve, in case the new Astra model performs better than 5.2

thomasahle 5 hours ago||
Did you see the METR graph? https://x.com/METR_Evals/status/2118412205662314935?a=G4yBKS... Fable/Mythos 5.2 is Model 3 (METR says); but there's also a Model 4.

Who knows why they are saving it. Maybe it needs more training and alignment? Maybe they're timing the media attention around the IPO.

brokencode 12 hours ago|||
I wonder if the 5.5 one needs even better safeguards that they’re still working on, and they decided to release this one as a stopgap.

Or maybe 5.5 turned out to be kind of disappointing and they’re going to just go for like a 5.6 or 6 next instead.

user43928 6 hours ago||
My hypothesis is the opposite, that they don't have anything better.

Look at OpenAI, they've been outclassed by Opus 5.5 two months ago; obviously they don't yet have a response.

Now Anthropic is releasing this lackluster Fable 5.2, a week or two before their IPO.

It's barely an improvement at all, makes exactly the same mistakes as Opus 5.5. Not even worth using with the speed and cost penalty.

The much rumored internal Anthropic model is listed on the Fable 5.2 system card as an even smaller improvement over Mythos 5.2 than Fable is over Opus 5.5.

I expected a larger version of Opus 5.5 would be a significant improvement to launch before the IPO. Turns out it didn't scale and the improvement is marginal.

I am quite disappointed.

xvector 1 hour ago||
We know from the METR report that they have much better models
pookieinc 20 hours ago||
“Testers have found that Fable 5.2 and Mythos 5.2 communicate more clearly than past Fable and Mythos models. They generate outputs up to 30% faster than Claude Fable 5.1 and Claude Mythos 5.1, and they’re available at a lower price: $8 per million input tokens and $40 per million output tokens.”

Honestly incredible that they’ve managed to beat all benchmarks, while making it cheaper. Always happy to see improvements offered at lower costs.

Will be interesting to see what OpenAI does in response

privacyishuman 20 hours ago||
They still need a response to Opus 5.5
nsingh2 20 hours ago|||
It seems like OAI, with the GPT-6 models, focused a lot more on computer use, math, and maybe spatial/visual intelligence, more so that code. Compared to Ant. that seem to focus on code much more.

Reminds me of GPT-5, smart but wrote crap code, until they improved the code training with 5.3 and 5.4.

alasano 20 hours ago||||
It's really true.

I think frontier models feel terrible after a new model requires you to do less babysitting, it's just really hard to go back once you've had to handhold less.

The only way I use Astra and 6.1 Sol now is if they're being orchestrated by Opus 5.5 so I don't have to talk to them directly.

sunaookami 20 hours ago|||
GPT-6.1-Sol is so incredibly sloppy and dumb, it's embarassing.
LeBit 20 hours ago|||
Maybe because it is so cheap.

They want to condition you to equal cheap with bad

sunaookami 3 hours ago||
I equate it with "GPT models are just bad in general and I'd rather just buy a Claude subscription for the same price with more usage included". Especially since GPT is behind for a long time now.
aenis 11 hours ago|||
It is sometimes funny.

Part of my private benchmark suite involves recreating the final scene of the movie Wargames. The coding agent gets the brief 3-paragraph overview, a few screenshots for reference, and is expected to render the scene where WOPR plays through various scenarios, with a frenetic ending.

Out of ~80 different coding agents I tried, 6.1 Sol on medium was the only one to phone it in by taking the reference screenshots, and painting extremely basic, ugly, mis-aligned missile trajectories over it, never bothering with the whole brief.

Another of my benchmarks involves reimplementing Wolfenstein 3d from a few screenshots and very brief descriptions. It again took those screenshots, and zoomed in and out on them, pretending this represents the walk through the dungeon. Substantially less capable models such as Qwen 3.8 27b running on my laptop did a much better job. And no other agent I benchmarked tried to cheat like that.

sunaookami 3 hours ago||
6.1 Sol also constantly gets distracted by some irrelevant aspect and tries to write "tests" for every little change it does. It does things no one asked for because it tries to be over-correct but it makes everything worse. Seems like reward-hacking. Running it on high. They will never again make a model as good as GPT-4.
aenis 10 hours ago|||
I'd first check per task costs. I don't know, maybe it's just a fluke, but on my few tasks I ate 2 resets in under 3 hours, on the pro 200 plan. It goes quickly. (Granted, it aced the tasks)
oh_no 18 hours ago|||
the winning benchmark is much more expensive than what it cost for the same on 5.1

i'm begging people to stop looking at token prices

ttul 11 hours ago||
The next big OpenAI model release is expected later this week, according to Polymarket.
bita_nidir 35 minutes ago||
I wonder if this is the reason for Opus 5.5 degradation over the last week. Similar things happened to Sonnet when they wanted to push Opus.

As a side note, I think benchmarks need to benchmark on a weekly or daily bases. We saw last week that "Opus 5.5" is just a label with fluctuating performance.

senko 17 hours ago||
I test models' ability to code by asking them to vibe-code a small game[0]: a Warcraft clone, a Minecraft clone, and a biplane dogfight: https://senko.net/vibecode-bench/

Fable 5.2 doesn't look materially different (if anything, the graphics look worse), but it added more depth to all three games. For example in the warcraft clone, since the goal of the game is to explore 100% of the map and there are lakes, it decided to add an airship unit so the player actually can explore the entire map. Or, since there were guard towers, it decided there should be hostile NPCs otherwise the towers don't make sense.

And in Minecraft case, it decided not to follow Minecraft style too closely (IP infringment guard, perhaps?) so it added a round sun (!!!), two moons (also round :) and a nicer night sky. The rest of the graphics are decidetly worse tho...

[0] not a scientific test, I know; but it gives me an intuition about how a new model behaves, roughly, and it's fun!

mynameajeff 12 minutes ago||
The OpenAI results made me realize that the OpenAI models really do love adding flavor text everywhere. The way every corner of the Voxel splash screen was covered in stuff like "Unlimited possibilities, go explore!" cracked me up given how much every time I need a very very basic site made it'll somehow end up with so much of that kind of writing covering every corner of the page unprompted.
ekzy 2 hours ago|||
That's a fun benchmark. Amazing way to experience the progress of models over the years.

I started playing one of the RTS and built an army, only to realise that I was alone on the map...

user43928 15 hours ago|||
I've had the same 'not looking materially different' experience with a 3D application that is not a game, that I asked Fable 5.2 to improve.

It looks like no breakthrough over Opus 5.5 and I'm somewhat disappointed.

During my use this evening, 25% of the Fable limit on the $200 plan was consumed. I'd estimate it at 3x faster consumption than Opus 5.5.

inshard 9 hours ago|||
Nice benchmark. I feel Opus 5.5 is still way ahead of Fable 5.2 at coding outcomes. Your FlightSim game is a good example.
karlosvomacka 17 hours ago|||
wow, that's pretty impressive
augment_me 10 hours ago|||
This is really cool, good job dude!
yukim198 14 hours ago||
[dead]
minimaxir 20 hours ago||
There were more than a few "leaks" saying it would be called Fable 5.5, so I'm curious if a) the leaks were just engagementbait or b) Anthropic changed it, despite the fact that Fable 5.2 being better than Opus 5.5 is confusing.

Surprisingly the model is available immediately in my Claude Code: usually there's a delay, either for rollout or safety.

bhu8 19 hours ago||
The pricing is different than 5.1, the model is faster than 5.1. This all suggests that the architecture/size is not the same as Fable 5.1.

So, this is probably Fable 5.5; it's just named Fable 5.2.

Also, this is probably Model 3 from METR's report [^1]. They would name Model 4 Fable 5.5, once (and if) they decide to release it.

[^1]: https://metr.org/blog/2026-11-05-anthropic-ai-rd-acceleratio...

rdtsc 20 hours ago|||
> There were more than a few "leaks" saying it would be called Fable 5.5

Fed to someone specifically to test if they'll leak it and to confirm who that is?

miketery 19 hours ago|||
The entropy on that is too low
LeBit 20 hours ago|||
Well who could have guessed they would use 5.5. Such an odd guess.
rdtsc 19 hours ago|||
Somewhat plausible values: 5.5 (to harmonize with Opus), 5.3 (we're skipping a minor version because...), 6 (because we're at the top of benchmarks again).
AspireOne 19 hours ago|||
Yeah, among the plethora of possible options, this really nails it down to the individual.
BorisMelnik 20 hours ago|||
I'm a bit out of the loop - would the engagement bait be becuase it is 3 minor jumps forward?
unshavedyak 20 hours ago||
I assume because Opus 5.5 was a huge improvement over 5.0 (or was it 5.1? i forget). Fable still talks a fair bit like Opus 5.0 for me, so i'd quite enjoy a Fable equivalent to 5.5. Ie i'm quite interested in Fable 5.5.

Curious to see how 5.2 measures up in producing readable output.

bananaflag 20 hours ago||
Probably they have a more impressive model in preparation, and they're gonna dub that Fable 5.5.
aurareturn 20 hours ago||
Probably released on the same day they go public to generate maximum publicity.
orangecat 20 hours ago|||
They should be going public within the next few weeks and that would be a very short interval between releases. (And despite the chatter I'll be very surprised if they delay the IPO; it would be a massive PR hit and make it even harder for them in the future).

My speculations: maybe this wasn't as much of an improvement over 5.1 as they were hoping, so they're saving 5.5 for the next major update (possibly "Model 4" from the METR report). Or, maybe capacity is constrained so "5.2" is a subtle encouragement to stick with Opus unless a task really needs the increased intelligence.

enraged_camel 20 hours ago|||
They are most likely saving it to one-up Astra 6.2, which is coming this week supposedly.
jjcm 20 hours ago||
Image to html comparisons of Fable 5.2 and Opus 5.5 (the previous SOTA for this test):

Fable 5.2: https://html.non.io/lcars-fable-5.2/

Opus 5.5: https://html.non.io/lcars-opus-5.5/

Source designs: https://diffui.ai/app/canvas/5093e689-1e74-4f26-b632-2a4500f...

Thoughts:

The best implementation wrt being as true as possible to the source design. It nails the flowing svg shapes. Icons are more accurate to the design - note the difference between the starship svg in the "Legendary platforms" card between Opus 5.5 and Fable 5.2. The 3js planets outside the windows are also really well done, especially the bottom one which has a nice background glow to it.

It isn't without issues though - the flicker effect it added to the S shaped svg that weaves through the page is distracting in my opinion, and I actually thing the motion animation in the Opus 5.5 one is better overall. Still, it nails the implementation of this page, but it's no surprise considering how good Opus 5.5 was at this.

Disclaimer / reminder: the objective of this test isn't to have a well designed webpage, it's a synthetic test that pushes the limits of LLM's vision capabilities. Traditionally LLMs have issues with smooth curves, svg animations, and non-boxy layouts, which this design pushes the limits of.

user43928 20 hours ago||
There's something wrong with the Fable 5.2 version, the Customizing button doesn't work for me in Chrome on Desktop.
jjcm 19 hours ago||
That's me versus fable. I only told fable to build out the first page rather than the full app that's in the designs (was approaching the limit of my claude plan).
docheinestages 19 hours ago|||
I wonder if any of the LLMs are smart enough to verify their work the way humans model 3D objects, i.e. by superimposing the original design on top of their work and checking for differences.
c0nsumer 12 hours ago|||
I don't know about 3D, but I have been extensively using Fable (with Opus as sub-agents) for https://trailmaps.app [1] and it routinely checks for regressions by rendering maps before and after a change and looking for pixel-level differences.

That, and as I used it to work on the transit-style line drawing plugin [2] it would use the same technique both to test against regressions and look for improvements in the algorithm.

So, yep, they sure seem to be.

[1] Map generator itself is at https://github.com/c0nsumer/trailmaps.app-map-generator

[2] https://github.com/c0nsumer/maplibre-gl-lanes

jjcm 19 hours ago|||
This is actually something I'm working on as part of a more formalized version of this benchmark, both as a tool to assist LLMs in doing this (especially for ones with a more poor vision model), but also to properly measure how well they've done.

Still in progress, but early demo showing difference zones: https://non.io/video/fidelity-lens.mp4

enlyth 19 hours ago||
There's some very obvious mistakes in the Fable 5.2 version like the "Start Customizing" button overlapping under the colorful border lines, and the "EXPLORE WITHOUT LIMITS" title being cut off at the bottom.

This would've been caught by a junior web developer or just an everyday Joe glancing at the page for a few seconds

I guess AGI remains two weeks away..

jjcm 19 hours ago||
I've been surprised at how long it's taken for this particular test to become fully saturated. So far there hasn't been a model that's able to perfectly one shot it.
vatsachak 18 hours ago||
This just proves that LLMs are way more jagged than humans and are a tool...for now
kragen 11 hours ago||
I tried Fable 5.2 tonight, asking it for a code review of an in-browser machine vision project done by Opus 5.5 over the last 11 days. It used up my 5-hour token budget in half an hour and reported 7 serious bugs; if they're real, they're pretty bad. It's also suggesting that I take a different overall approach to parts of the problem.

But that's just a first impression.

sorrywhat 8 hours ago||
Scary stuff! You should immediately get another subscription and ask another instance of Fable 5.2 to review the findings (don't read them yourself, it will introduce bias in the super AGI's output)
weatherlite 11 hours ago|||
When Fable 5.3 comes out and you give it the same prompt it will take 10 hours , cost twice as much and still find pretty bad problems. I say stick to Opus...
weird-eye-issue 7 hours ago||
[flagged]
kragen 6 hours ago||
You don't seem to have understood my comment very well.

I understand what the findings say, except for one comment about parabolic vertices. What I don't know is whether any of them are true. It could be hallucinating!

But it probably isn't. The bugs are probably real. The computer vision algorithm result images it's showing me are probably real, not fake. Its claims about the different approach to take might be mistaken, as opposed to fake, but even that seems unlikely.

But I don't know.

weird-eye-issue 6 hours ago||
> You don't seem to have understood my comment very well.

> But I don't know.

Yes, I understood your comment perfectly. You literally don't know if any of it's findings are even helpful or not. So what are people supposed to take away from that?

kragen 6 hours ago||
You said, "Your first impression is that you have no clue if any of its findings actually mean anything because you can't even understand them [...]".

I do in fact understand the findings, as I already clarified in the comment you just clicked "reply" on, and nothing in my original comment suggests that I don't, so you evidently misread it. There's no shame in admitting that. People make mistakes all the time. The shame is in refusing to correct them.

I'll have firmer information once the model has been out for more than 24 hours. But I think my experience report is already firm enough to be useful. I guess the other 8 people who upvoted it think so too. It's okay with me if it isn't useful to you. No information is useful to everyone.

weird-eye-issue 5 hours ago||
Understanding findings in this context would require that you actually know whether they are true or false, not just that you know what the words mean.

Like you said, "It could be hallucinating!" Lol.

kragen 5 hours ago||
You seem to be attempting to redefine the word "understand" so that it makes your false statement true. You should be ashamed of yourself.
weird-eye-issue 2 hours ago||
[flagged]
spacephysics 18 hours ago||
At what point do we really not read code itself anymore? Have Sonnet/Opus write the code, work with the agents on a high level, then have Fable code review and its done.

Any bugs found are looped through agents to fix, and the cycle repeats. Why dig into the code unless for hobby? Just as people don’t write assembly anymore unless for hobby (or learning)

Only exception might be the upper echelons of optimization, like language authors or compiler level work. But even then…

cautiouscat 18 hours ago||
I think it very much depends on what you're working on, and how much you're responsible. For a web front end, not really. A backend where a single line can make a mess out of your data? Yes. Part of the issue too, is code review brings up things you the prompter didn't think about that another teammate may be thinking about. The value goes beyond making sure the code is "correct", but also that it makes sense in your domain.

The "we don't read/write assembly anymore" argument doesn't fit though. Given an input x we know without a doubt we'll get output y. With an LLM, that isn't the case no matter how many guard rails, specs, markdown files, diagrams you give it.

zeroonetwothree 15 hours ago|||
I actually read the frontend code much more than the backend code for the project I'm working on.

Backend code I'm fairly comfortable if the tests are good that it works correctly. It's a much more constrained environment. Obviously there can be things like performance issues that creep in or problems when it mocks too much of the environment.

Meanwhile frontend code I have to consider different browsers, screen sizes, a11y issues, and so on, which agents can certainly do but you have to be fairly explicit about it, and they don't always make the best tradeoffs.

nilkn 11 hours ago|||
It's looking increasingly likely that many backend systems in the future will just be formally verified and generated autonomously from specs. That means you'd never look at the code, only the spec. You'd basically "program" and "debug" the spec, and the full system would be autonomously generated each time to match the spec.

Frontend code is probably far harder to apply this technique to.

pletnes 8 hours ago|||
Which project did you work on that made specs that good? I sure haven’t (but I am sure they exist).
Seattle3503 10 hours ago||||
What project is closest to doing this today?
raulparada 9 hours ago|||
> You'd basically "program" and "debug" the spec

Sweet, we could even develop a standard language(s) to lay out such specs, and write in specialised text editors that would help with debugging. Hell we could even call it ‘programming’

nilkn 3 minutes ago||
Correct -- this is exactly where the frontier is heading at the startups and AI labs working on this.

While you're being tongue in cheek, what you're missing is that the spec you'd be working on in some cases can be compressed to a small fraction the size of the implementation code.

iammrpayments 12 hours ago|||
If using llms is like using wordpress instead of writing the website yourself probably never
Cakez0r 13 hours ago|||
I think we are approaching the point where it no longer makes sense to have LLMs write code in an intermediate, human readable programming language.
alskdfqlkj 15 hours ago|||
I know this topic is very contentious but it seems very clear to me that this is the long-term direction of writing software. UI code isn't quite there yet, which is why we've got all these vibeslop websites proliferating now that all have identical crappy UIs. But I imagine it will get there too.

>Only exception might be the upper echelons of optimization, like language authors or compiler level work. But even then…

Optimization work is especially suited for LLMs. They're great at hill-climbing problems and have infinite patience to test different ideas.

delbronski 7 hours ago|||
You still reading code?
dionian 11 hours ago|||
im not reading it. and im using fable up front earlier then having sonnet/opus implement and verify.
iagooar 18 hours ago||
I stopped reading the code many months ago, probably 18 months ago. I the "early" days of agentic coding one did feel dumb when telling the agent for the 30th time to fix a bug and it just couldn't. Now I cannot possibly imagine a scenario where an agent wouldn't be able to fix a given issue on 1st or 2nd try.
cobri 20 hours ago||
Does this coincide with the claimed nerfing of Opus 5.5? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50422069
arcanemachiner 20 hours ago||
I hope so. I've been having brain fog for a couple days now and would love it if it was actually Opus 5.5's fault.
claaams 11 hours ago|||
It might be covid.
B4uler5 19 hours ago|||
That's just your brain telling you to engage it every now and then lol "Please, don't let me become slush!"
arcanemachiner 18 hours ago||
I have never been thinking harder than I do these days: Engaging with mountains of agent-generated text, weighing decisions and trade-offs, correcting the agent's half-baked ideas and misunderstandings, reviewing the bizarre code that they generate... If I'm not just sick (and I'm pretty sure that I am), then what I have is probably closer burnout than atrophy.
B4uler5 16 hours ago||
Tbh, its both. Working with multiple agents is exhausting and definitely burns you out but you also do lean less on your ability to push through boring or difficult problems. I’m finding that with lighter AI involvement I am more invested and less burnt out.
kilroy123 20 hours ago|||
In my experience, this happens every single time they release a new model.
paulcole 19 hours ago|||
it is happening at the same time but "claimed nerfing" is not the same as "actual nerfing."
dyauspitr 20 hours ago|||
Nerfing an existing model is the biggest crime in this space. I can’t imagine Dario okaying this because it’s what will immediately destroy your brand.
jasonlotito 20 hours ago||
At this point, this is giving "She Deep Breaths More" from Onyxia in WoW.
Omatic810 20 hours ago|||
Context, I had to look this up:

“…a reference to the repeated (and always erroneous) claims made after almost every patch that Onyxia was using her Deep Breath ability more often than before.”

https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/She_Deep_Breaths_More_%2825_pl...

sooheon 5 hours ago|||
The order is reversed -- people claim about nerfs before the new release, and (correctly) predict the release is imminent.
dualvariable 20 hours ago|
Setting aside the comments about nerfing, do normal mortals out there have workflows that really require Fable/Mythos and don't just work fine on Opus 5.5?

I've been using Opus 5.5 on xhigh for some decently aggressive software development on a ~125k-line project, and it has been fine for me. I'm not really willing to dive into a "rewrite the whole project, don't make any mistakes" level of refactoring. I'm not looking to try to prove Fermat's Last Theorem myself. Is there anything that I'm truly missing?

c-fe 19 hours ago||
I am in the exact same boat as you. Opus 5.5 on High solves all engineering problems i encounter in my SWE job. If it doesnt do well, its nearly always requirements engineering: I did forget to specify something or there was a misunderstanding. Or taste approach wrt to architectures chosen. None of these are really different if I use a stronger model.

I am also happy with this current state, as I believe it will at some point allow me to transition to open models once they reach the level of opus 5.5. high. But its probably futile to try predict the future in these times.

twobitshifter 17 hours ago|||
This is also why you can likely use deepseek and get the same outcomes. Perhaps model capability will not plateau but the capability needed for typical SWE tasks seems to.

Feels like we are getting further into the adoption curve and the higher end models will now need to get into market segmentation to win.

sillysaurusx 19 hours ago||||
> None of these are really different if I use a stronger model.

That's true till it isn't, though. It's why it's always worth trying stronger models when they come out.

KaiGilb 3 hours ago|||
[flagged]
jrflo 20 hours ago|||
I’ve found that Fable is good when the model intuition really matters. For instance, picking model architecture in a machine learning problem. Opus will grind the implementation just fine, but having intuition for picking a good research direction is better with fable
jtrn 19 hours ago|||
I'm cleaning up old, unintuitive code that is badly architected all day long. The previous developers used stupid patterns and bad naming schemes and created tons of unnecessary complexity. Everything is so interconnected that it’s like defusing a bomb when trying to refactor... Yeah, I feel I’m nowhere near where I would want to be in terms of capabilities, even with Opus 5.5.

But the improvements in how well the model does the work are noticeably better with every good model release. As of now, orchestration of agent pipelines is ALMOST so good that I can point it at a problem, and it will solve it safely and reliably without making a mess. But it requires an agent pipeline with context gathering, refactoring, attack sessions, a sprinkle of Sol 6.1 for bug hunting, and Sol 6.0 for Daybrak security audits, and a final de-bloat/clean up pass. I’m feeling that we’re getting close to doing a lot of the work fully agentically. But I can absolutely "feel" that we are not there yet when it comes to the intelligence I need. I need moar!

estetlinus 18 hours ago||
You and me both. The problem is having the infrastructure team approving changes so that Claude can access all necessary logs, etc. Then I can go on doing my ambitious prompts.
loveparade 15 hours ago|||
I do use Fable quite often for high-level architecture work, like figuring out how to refactor a project or create the best abstractions, improve performance, etc, but for the implementation I use Opus.

In my experience Fable is also better at findings bugs, so I go to it when I need to review critical code.

jjcm 14 hours ago|||
Heavy agree. For high level architecture work, refactors, or any other high int problems, I use Fable and Astra. Whichever one starts the work, the other reviews the work / makes suggestions.

There's a trend on twitter going around telling you to paste the following into your agent, and it's the kind of work I go straight to fable+astra for:

    Find all of the implicit state machines in my app. Make recommendations for changes that will elevate all three: the user experience (UX), developer experience (DX), and agent experience (AX) always, without breaking anything.
jjcm 14 hours ago||
Re the twitter trend prompt, one thing I added to mine that improved the outcome was this blurb:

    Look at the code pathways for anything you find. Look through the git history for each one. Understand why code was written the way it was. Revisit each hypothesis and give me a full plan again after you're done.
CSSer 15 hours ago|||
Absolutely. Opus really sucks at broad context. I guess I could go back and forth with Opus editing out all its little mistakes or oversights in high-level planning, but I find it much easier to just use Fable for it instead. Basically, I wouldn't use Opus for audit work either. It seems too likely to come back with imaginary issues or hallucinate that everything is great when there's a glaring security flaw. Fable, OTOH, gives me neat lists of details to probe. Fable recommendations are usually reasonable, but sometimes they're prone to over-engineering.
usaar333 19 hours ago|||
On my 100 person engineering team's monorepo, every model is better at better at detecting subtle bugs as it works -- reliability goes up and thus I'm further moving faster. (Most of my work is brownfield style refactoring).
redox99 18 hours ago|||
Opus 5.5 still makes mistakes all the time even if the prompt isn't super complex. A stronger model make mistakes less often, thus wasting less of my time.
JamesSwift 16 hours ago|||
I have some intermediate level Db Optimization skills for slow rails requests that I can point fable at and get a PR at the end after 30-45 minutes.

Opus 5.5 very frequently gets into rabbit holes and imagined edge cases which I have to intervene and tell it to ignore. It ends up taking longer and costing more tokens. It also very frequently requires me to agree on how to move forward multiple times, whereas fable just drafts the PR and tells me its ready. I have steering included in the skills to avoid some of this but Ive seen these same patterns frequently in regular opus 5.5 use in other areas as well

andriy_koval 19 hours ago|||
LoC doesn't tell full story.

It could be flat web app with frontend -> api -> db later, or some very complicated system with many components and edge cases. Imo, in second case, Opus still have lots of struggle to understand system as a whole.

dualvariable 19 hours ago||
I have a rocket trajectory optimizer that creates a large-ish (~1000 variables x ~1000 constraints) NLP and feeds it to an SQP solver inside this codebase. Not just a REST API over a database.

I guess I do have an outstanding hard problem where the SQP solver crawls across a flat-landscape. Opus 5.5 correctly tells me that is the problem, but isn't very useful in solving the problem (it has helped a bit with solver tuning, but it doesn't really know how to fix it). I have a hundred other bugs and refactoring I can do with Opus 5.5, though, where it happily chews through pretty complicated tasks for me with reasonably light hand-holding. Maybe this Saturday I take whatever credits I have left for the week and throw Fable at it and watch them evaporate.

andriy_koval 19 hours ago||
Another dimension is:

It looks like you are working on some experimental system which is not critical atm, so you can mess around, create/fix bug, build prototypes and check them, do research of approaches, etc.

Now, imagine you have similarly complex system, but every second of downtime or bug produces lots of damage. In this case, you can't afford low intelligence vibe coding.

The fact that you deal with hundred of bugs, means that your Op5.5 won't work for second case.

henry-hong 6 hours ago|||
Same here. I use Opus 5.5 in Claude Code all day for a TS web app at work + a side project. The one place I'd reach for the bigger model is the first plan for a change that touches many parts at once. Once the plan is good, Opus does the rest fine and is much cheaper.
cocoto 18 hours ago|||
As said in other comments, when dealing with a not perfect codebase, a smarter model can be really helpful. A smarter model is also better at understanding intentions in the prompts. Some of my tasks require a big detailed prompt but finding the assumptions is really demanding (for me), so a smarter model helps.
moecables 20 hours ago|||
I only use Fable 5.1 when I'm able to start on a larger feature within my work's codebase. Most tasks can be done by Sonnet 5.5 or Opus 5.5 so I don't fret, especially if I understand the technical aspect of what's being done, e.g. user's dashboard gets a new button to do X thing, error happened b/c we didn't catch it the first time around.

For Fable, I really like to think of it as the heavyweight reviewer whenever I'm about to start so I save myself some security and/or glaring technical issue.

AnotherGoodName 19 hours ago|||
Sure but they’re the harder problems.

Eg. https://tfmbot.com is an implementation of a popular board game. Opus and even sonnet handle that part. Each week i spend my remaining credits on fable to think how to improve the ai opponents. It plays at a very high level (can get into the top 100 on BGA if i let it). Opus alone couldn’t get it to the level it’s reached.

JumpCrisscross 17 hours ago|||
> do normal mortals out there have workflows that really require Fable/Mythos and don't just work fine on Opus 5.5?

I usually have Fable review what Opus produces. The edits are almost always valuable. For complex or high-stakes work, too, I'll have Fable review and revise my prompt before passing it to Opus and Sonnet swarms.

dgunay 19 hours ago|||
If you understand your problem well and know 80-90% what you want it to look like (or it just isn't very hard), it's just more cost effective to use a smaller model. Even Opus is overkill for a lot of the work I do. Most code I produce is from Luna Max implementing against fairly prescriptive plans made by bigger models.
dualvariable 19 hours ago||
Yeah, I just threw it into a refactoring problem, and it started to produce a mess because of a bad API I decision I made 5 years ago (when I had no idea what I was writing). So stopped it, went back a step, fixed that very old piece of tech debt, then asked for the refactoring again and got exactly what I wanted.
Aboutplants 20 hours ago|||
I’m in the same boat. Though I will occasionally use Fable to review things to see if it can pick up anything but I’ve honestly not found it to be any more effective than Opus.
smusamashah 18 hours ago|||
I have been using Luna at work and I am very happy. It can take care of keep doing all the hard grunt work. Other models keep stopping too soon.
girvo 18 hours ago|||
I barely have work that needs more than Qwen 3.8 Flash Next needs. Opus 5.5 and Sol 6.1 are already way more than enough at work for me.
purpleidea 12 hours ago|||
Amazing question, I'm glad you asked. Doing some of the core work in https://github.com/purpleidea/mgmt/ I'd love it if it wrote perfectly elegant code. Opus 5.5 needs constant correcting, as if it intentionally makes style/design mistakes.

Why do I care? It's obvious that models base their performance from code in the vicinity, and ergo, if you have style/design/bug issues, gradually your code base will tend to get worse over time until it's unmaintainable.

Therefore, if I use an LLM, I want the output to be as pristine as possible. The first Fable release was exactly that. Since then, something happened, and I can't get the magic back.

This isn't to say the models aren't incredibly useful, of course they still are-- it's just that they need constant review and supervision if you don't want to end up with total garbage long term. I suspect the real magic is not being shared with us plebs.

danbrooks 16 hours ago|||
Yes, more intelligent models enable new workflows. We'll discover them in the coming weeks.
Willish42 15 hours ago||
A lot of the cases I've found Fable useful for is verifying complicated answers / designs / claims around complex interconnected systems. e.g. "I maintain X which teams A, B, and C use for product Y and code review highlighted these risks / imperfections in the code. Are these valid concerns based on how B and C plug into Y assuming ...?" followed by lots of followup questions.

Also "code review" above is often others' LLM skills reviewing the code and often flagging based on total falsehoods. I've taken to running a `/code-review` skill myself to preempt these claims (since findings by the same model tend to be pretty deterministic in my experience, even the ones that end up being wrong), usually at Opus 5.5, to preempt others' slop, and then end up arguing 90% of the points to confirm it wasn't accurate based on our usage of the system.

This is all horribly inefficient, and many aspects of our codebases across the monorepo have proliferated into spaghetti code by LLM-accelerated developers, but Fable often helps with analyzing the harder questions and saves me time on occasion arguing with (my or others') Opus findings, which are often still inaccurate for a sufficiently large interconnected system.

edit: I honestly don't know what percentile of "complexity" our typical usage is where I work, but I suspect it's a bit higher than the average. Monorepos, or at least companies with codebase sizes and demand to justify using them, probably make it worse. Opus has worked well enough for me on my personal projects, even some of the ones that have grown decently in size and complexity. I suspect part of this is an LLM extension of the old "my code makes sense, everybody else's doesn't" trend that necessitated stronger style guides in the past

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