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Posted by tosh 2 days ago

Jane Street: Socratic Tutor(github.com)
358 points | 83 commentspage 3
SkyBelow 1 hour ago|
I've tried something like this and ran into a problem which I'm not seeing a fix for. Generally, to really apply this method, you need to understand the person asking the question.

>Tell the user that you will start by asking a few questions, one at a time, to see what they already know.

This puts it into the session each time. Do this once and it seems to work. By the 5th time, you are getting tired of reconfirming your mastery. This ends up depending upon the user to have a pretty solid foundation of what they know and then use this skill to expand the boundary a bit, and even then the AI can end up making so many assumptions that a person has trouble following it along.

I was thinking some sort of concept mapping kept long term might help, but such a mapping can become really difficult to build. Which should be expected when we consider that teaching isn't just its own discipline, but has many sub-disciplines targeted to specific areas (even if some of it, like classroom management, doesn't apply to this scenario).

I made a few attempts at a knowledge tracking tool for personal use to track how much I knew Japanese beyond a simple JLPT level or similar with the plan to tie it into something like this, but it wasn't great. I could 'cheat' and just tap into my Wanikani API to see my progress, but that still skips so many other areas of Japanese, and even when WaniKani says something is burned, I really want AI to still use it until I truly internalize it like I do words in English. I suspect other areas of knowledge are similar.

pbronez 15 minutes ago|
Yes, lots of LLM Skills quickly turn into applications. The skill is the program and the LLM is the compute, and that leaves the harness to manage the state. I’ve found that these skills need explicit instructions on how to manage state across sessions.

In my work, this typically means an opinionated local folder structure and a dedicated /init skill that implements it. Immediately this means we have more than one skill so we’re talking about a plugin now.

Then I think about meta-state. Not just “what is on disk” but “where are we in this application’s multi-session lifecycle?” For Socratic tutoring, that means checking to see if we’ve completed an initial intake, then what skill levels the user has demonstrated, and finally what’s next on the menu.

For this specific skill, I’m surprised it doesn’t say anything about curriculum. It just assumes the model knows the topic and can improvise both a curriculum and credible assessments of progress in that curriculum. That can’t be true for all things people want to learn, so we need a /build-curriculum skill. And probably a /validate-curriculum skill for actual experts to use before launching a given curriculum.

Anyway, I’ve been thinking a lot about this kind of thing as I roll out skills to my firm.

orbis-tertius 1 hour ago||
This works really well.

A positive take: this works much better than the many projects on gh that did this before Jane Street. This would be evidence that creativity and execution still matter, even when the product is just an md file

A cynical take: network effects are everything. tens of projects doing the same thing and this only gains traction when an already popular org does it

nilsherzig 4 hours ago||
someone at jane street likes https://www.mathacademy.com/how-it-works
Traster 4 hours ago||
I see a lot of this at my company too - everyone re-inventing the same ideas over and over. I wonder how much people actually adopt other teams' implementation of this. In my experience I'm bombarded with a thousand different iterations of these things that everyone wants to advertise as a sort of "Look at me! I'm so AI!" but I simply don't have time to evaluate every different persons variation on these things, I certainly don't have time to really thoroughly benchmark them, and from experience a lot what I needed a carefully tuned skill to achieve 6 months ago is trivial for a better tuned agent today. I'm literally getting to the point where even my own skills are beginning to bit-rot.
AvAn12 1 hour ago||
If it was this easy, educators would have written up sets of standard Socratic teaching prompts long ago. Like perhaps in the time of Socrates himself. Or the British empire or John Dewey etc. There is probably some great research in the field of Education on this approach.
amelius 1 hour ago||
LLMs should first learn how to write English for humans.

Right now what they produce reads like legalese, or patents.

I suspect this is because the AI labs are optimizing for agents talking to agents, rather than AI talking to humans (which is harder to optimize, and does not improve intelligence as fast).

thibsrn 3 hours ago||
Sensei, please teach me the ways to reach alpha just like you.

Jokes aside, pretty cool. This is just a skill, and it'd be easy to dismiss it. But I do want to become a better horse whisperer. Prompt engineering used to be mocked a lot, especially on HN, and skills really is just that but with a new branding.

I think Duolingo's days and the likes are counted, AI is just a great way to quickly get up to speed on a subject or a language.

Paracompact 2 hours ago||
Duolingo maybe or maybe not, but even having God himself at your beck and call behind a chat interface will not guarantee you learn a language. Every stage of language acquisition requires multimodal stimulation and long sustained effort that can't be shortcutted by having a smarter teacher.
sjdh76 2 hours ago||
> Sensei, please teach me the ways to reach alpha just like you

obligatory Bruce Lee - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QQiH2-bLOmQ

mathieuh 6 hours ago||
I assume this isn't going to cause the LLM to start jumping me with questions about the nature of piety or justice
eloto333 1 hour ago||
I WANT TO SEE THIS COMMENT ON COMMENTS
bob1029 6 hours ago|
This comes off as AI consultant slop from a year ago. I wonder who is in charge of AI at Jane Street.

My client just got done firing someone who thought filling the codebase up with files like this would be a good idea.

It would seem the AI revolution is happening at wildly different rates depending on where you are standing.

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