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Posted by speckx 6 hours ago

Synaptics patent claims stop work on DisplayLink drivers(lwn.net)
263 points | 120 commentspage 3
viraptor 3 hours ago|
I wish Synaptics a very "find this work fully completed by someone on https://gitflic.ru/" day.
techteach00 4 hours ago||
I support Federico Faggins company
j45 4 hours ago||
At some point there needs to be a test of when software is related to owning hardware.

Some questions that come to mind are:

Do you actually own the hardware?

Do you stop owning the hardware, meaning you're not allowed or able to use it once the company that's sold it to you stops providing or updating hardware?

Does every piece of hardware come with a guarantee that it will work on every piece of hardware that it's attached to forever?

These are just a few of the really troubling questions when people forget that software has to run on hardware. And the closer the software is to the core operation of a piece of hardware and equipment, the more topics like right to repair or right to maintain or right to optimize come up.

I never thought that a video card replacement driver would make me think of companies that are limiting Farmers from repairing and updating their own tractors.

kube-system 3 hours ago|
If you want to know whether any relatively modern computer hardware is encumbered by IP restrictions, it's pretty simple, the answer is yes.

The closest you can get is something like the Raptor Talos II, although parts of the hardware are still under patent.

gsich 4 hours ago||
>Yes, you should be concerned. Very concerned, actually

Unbelievable mafia tactics from those clowns.

kotaKat 5 hours ago||
"Your actions are potentially putting tens of millions of dollars of yearly corporate revenue at risk."

https://static.lwn.net/images/pdf/Cease_and_Desist_Notice_Mi...

Fuck you, Synaptics.

interestica 3 hours ago||
Felony contempt of business model?

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/06/felony-contempt-busine...

mschuster91 5 hours ago||
> Fuck you, Synaptics.

Which is made funnier by the lawyer's name being Bateman. Sorry, could not resist that one.

What I find more ridiculous is the timing:

> You are to provide Synaptics, no later than 11:59 p.m. Pacific Time on October 11, 2026

The letter is dated "October 5, 2026". WTF are these lawyers smoking that they think 5 days is any reasonable time frame.

nicce 5 hours ago||
> The letter is dated "October 5, 2026". WTF are these lawyers smoking that they think 5 days is any reasonable time frame.

They just try to keep the pressure up so that the other entity gives up before they have time to estimate whether any of the claims are valid. One person against big corporation, which is threatening with big penalties. A common tactic.

ChrisArchitect 4 hours ago||
[dupe] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50363968
nekusar 2 hours ago||
Seriously, use OCuLink. It costs $15 for the pcie card, $10 for a cable, and $100 for a GFX card dock, and a PSU.

OCuLink doesn't even use drivers. It's literally just a PCIE passthrough. All usual tools apply, whereas DisplayLink encrypts all data, so a big fuckyou for getting logs.

Quit giving trash companies pounds of money for abuse at scale.

sedatk 5 hours ago||
Available only to subscribers, so, most of HN can't see this page I guess.

EDIT: Fixed now.

adrian_b 5 hours ago||
AFAIK, links to LWN pages are intentionally always visible to non-subscribers.

In any case, I am not a subscriber and I see it.

cyberax 4 hours ago||
Subscribers can create a free link to the content. And all articles become publicly available after one week of paywall.
lobo_tuerto 5 hours ago|||
It seems they made it available.
enchilada 5 hours ago|||
LWN operates a kind of soft paywall as a form of try-before-you-buy

> The following subscription-only content has been made available to you by an LWN subscriber. Thousands of subscribers depend on LWN for the best news from the Linux and free software communities. If you enjoy this article, please consider subscribing to LWN. Thank you for visiting LWN.net!

sedatk 5 hours ago|||
Yes, I'm able to see it now.
advisedwang 5 hours ago||
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html

> Are paywalls ok?

> It's ok to post stories from sites with paywalls that have workarounds.

> In comments, it's ok to ask how to read an article and to help other users do so. But please don't post complaints about paywalls. Those are off topic. More here.

Beijinger 5 hours ago||
I predict a high chance that they lose this patent. Mark my words.

https://lkml.rescloud.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/2610.1/1...

According to patent prosecution records, the independent claims for GB2484736 originally lacked any network transport limitations and were deemed entirely unpatentable against the prior art listed above.

To get the patent granted, DisplayLink’s attorneys amended the claims to specifically add delivery of the display data over a "general-purpose data network." The validity challenge relies on proving that adding a general-purpose transport layer (like USB or Ethernet) to existing image-compression methodologies was an obvious step and completely unoriginal in 2010, given the widespread existence of USB monitors and network-attached graphics at the time.

alright2565 5 hours ago||
> mapping claim 11 of DisplayLink GB Patent No. 2484736 and claim 11 of DisplayLink GB Patent No. 2485613 to your Vino driver source code

As far as I can tell, these patents only go up to claim 10 in the first place:

- https://patents.google.com/patent/GB2484736A/en

- https://patents.google.com/patent/GB2485613A/en

skinfaxi 5 hours ago|||
Strange, I noticed that too. I couldn't find any other patent reference for GB Patent No. 2485613 with more than 10 claims.
mring33621 2 hours ago|||
Secret FISA Patent Claim

U not cleared to see it

Beijinger 5 hours ago|||
The patent generally covers methods and architectures for transmitting compressed screen updates over a general-purpose data network, such as USB or Ethernet, the patent specifically claims Haar-transform decoding.

So only the combination may be new. But this reminds me of a USPTO thing from my past.

The landmark ruling you are referring to is the U.S. Supreme Court case KSR International Co. v. Teleflex Inc. (2007), which led directly to the USPTO publishing its highly influential 2010 Examination Guidelines for Determining Obviousness. Under this framework, if element A is known and element B is known, combining them is not patentable if the combination yields nothing more than predictable results.

https://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/mpep/s2143.html

So, general-purpose data network, such as USB or Ethernet was known (A), claims Haar-transform decoding was known (B) [DE69909880T2 / EP0955609]. Even if we don't find this combination in prior art, it is dubious that this is patent worthy based on USPTO guidelines (combine A with B).

But I see a lot of stuff that suggests prior art:

1. Noriaki Yamazaki and Tetsuo Tanaka (2007). “ZYWRLE: Enhanced VNC Codec for Motion Picture.” IEICE Transactions, J90-D(7), pp. 1790–1798. Brief summary: Adds wavelet compression to VNC’s ZRLE codec for transmitting moving images, reducing network traffic to 20–50% of standard ZRLE. https://search.ieice.org/bin/summary.php?abst=j&category=D&i...

2. Joshua G. Senecal, Peter Lindstrom, Mark A. Duchaineau and Kenneth I. Joy (2004). “An Improved N-Bit to N-Bit Reversible Haar-Like Transform.” Proceedings of Pacific Graphics 2004, pp. 371–380. DOI: 10.1109/PCCGA.2004.1348368. Brief summary: Introduces PLHaar, a reversible Haar-like transform supporting lossy and lossless image compression without increasing coefficient bit width, suitable for bandwidth-limited video and graphics hardware. https://www.osti.gov/servlets/purl/15014239

3. Joshua G. Senecal, Mark A. Duchaineau and Kenneth I. Joy (2004). “Reversible n-Bit to n-Bit Integer Haar-Like Transforms.” Proceedings of the Data Compression Conference 2004, p. 564. Brief summary: Introduces lookup-table Haar-like transforms that preserve bit width and reversibility, with applications to fast image compression and streaming hardware such as DVI channels. https://www.osti.gov/servlets/purl/15013668

Good luck synaptic!

alright2565 4 hours ago||
There's also a 2003 datasheet the describes basically the same compressed framebuffer transport as GB2485613: https://www.amd.com/content/dam/amd/en/documents/archived-te..., section 5.5.2

Also possibly related:

Method and apparatus for increasing memory resource utilization in an information stream decoder, https://patents.google.com/patent/WO1999057908A1/en

And a paper by a PHD student in 2005, Real-time Rendering with Wavelet-Compressed Multi-Dimensional Datasets on the GPU, https://cs.ucsb.edu/sites/default/files/documents/2005-05.pd...

Displaylink's own abandoned patent application talking about sending patches of compressed/uncompressed graphical data to the screen over USB: https://patents.google.com/patent/US20060119602A1/en

Using reference frames with Haar wavelet transforms in video compression, https://patents.google.com/patent/US6272180B1/en

toomuchtodo 5 hours ago|||
Is this a potential use case for having a gen AI agent grind to put a prior art claim together? Feels like scanning and building prior art to challenge existing patents is a great use of AI agents, but I might be mistaken.
any1 4 hours ago|||
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5d8nwgiSYI
toomuchtodo 4 hours ago||
Brilliant, thanks for the share.
deckar01 4 hours ago|||
You assume there is some logic to software patents. It looks like an extortion racket to me. If you don’t pay enough fire insurance the mob lets your competition burn your business down.
cowlevel 39 minutes ago|||
I wouldn't pin that on patents specifically, it seems you can shut down a free software project by suing them for literally anything, even something they obviously didn't do because they can't afford a lawyer and can't afford a loss so their only option is to give in to everything you want.
toomuchtodo 4 hours ago|||
If software patents are slop, you fight slop with slop.

It would take much human time to search for prior art across all of human knowledge for existing patents and new patents being proposed. But GPUs are tireless, and can continually grind towards success. They build their case for dismantling all existing active patents as long as they are kept fed.

If I were a frontier lab, I would be finding the most valuable patents, starting the research agents up, and then shorting companies that would see enterprise value decline if subject patents were invalidated (think Hindenburg or Culper Research activist investors). Just one way of monetizing the fancy search engine and token dispenser.

https://www.cloudflare.com/jengo/sable-prior-art-search/

https://www.eff.org/issues/patent-busting-project

dmitrygr 5 hours ago|||
> I predict a high chance that they lose this patent. Mark my words.

After how many dollars spent? I mean, it is good that eventually bad patents get killed, but it still costs too much to do it, one at a time. We need a more streamlined process, maybe? Maybe an academic-review-like process at filing? Send the claims anonymously to a few experts in the field, randomly selected. If they all say it is obvious, kill it immediately and fine the company for wasting the patent office's time?

Beijinger 4 hours ago||
Ex Parte Reexamination (A streamlined request to have a USPTO examiner re-evaluate the patent) $6,775 (Streamlined, ≤ 40 pages)

I think we could get the 7 grand together here.

skissane 4 hours ago||
This is a UK patent, the USPTO has no jurisdiction over it.
AlanYx 4 hours ago||
In the UK, there is an administrative "reexamination" process that is significantly cheaper... only 250 UKP: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/request-for-opini...
JoshTriplett 3 hours ago||
If someone wants to do the work to put together and file the claim, I'll provide the ₤250. Worth it to see attempted patent enforcement destroyed.
skissane 1 hour ago||
I think this is a great idea.

My only concern is, what if some well-meaning person puts in a poorly constructed claim, and then that creates a counterproductive precedent.

I think ideally, someone like Software Freedom Conservancy or the Linux Foundation or the FSF or whoever would take charge of doing it, taking advice from patent attorneys in the process.

Maybe there is some UK patent attorney reading this who is willing to take it on pro bono?

eecc 5 hours ago||
X11? RDP?
joshuafuller 4 hours ago|
The most disturbing part is that a single developer, with some AI assistance, was able to improve hardware support that the manufacturer couldn't or wouldn't fix. Instead of embracing that work, Synaptics threatened to financially ruin him. As AI lowers the barrier to reverse engineering and interoperability, I suspect we'll see a lot more companies reaching for lawyers when their technical moats start disappearing.
interestica 3 hours ago|
Disturbing that this pretty reasonable take was flagged.

The patent system itself has been a moat and we will see more and more reasonable submissions that will force a rethink.