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Posted by josephljohnston 1 hour ago

Anthropic IPO(ipo.anthropic.com)
146 points | 167 commentspage 4
p-e-w 1 hour ago|
$23 billion quarterly net loss.

Hundreds of billions in future liabilities.

IPO valuation above $1 trillion.

The lunatics are running the asylum.

juliie 1 hour ago||
To be fair, that loss includes over $20b from instruments like convertible notes. They're not equity, so the increase in their value has to be reported as a loss. But in the context of this IPO, they will behave like equity, and just turn into stock. That's not money anthropic will pay, it will just dilute investors during IPO.

Reporting an increase in the value of the company as a loss is weird, but they have to do it. this is a case where adjusted earnings give a better idea of how the business is going.

the_duke 1 hour ago|||
As the page says, almost 22bn of that is a book loss due to share price increase.

So their loss is actually small compared to revenue.

epolanski 55 minutes ago|||
And buying too!
A_D_E_P_T 1 hour ago|||
I unironically believe that bitcoin -- and, downstream, the memestock -- have everything to do with this.

Old-school fundamentals are laughed at or handwaved away. FOMO rules the day. "If Anthropic is the first to AGI, it'll take over every industry and go to the moon!"

dotancohen 1 hour ago|||
Nobody is buying these companies because they believe that the company is valuable. They are buying these stocks because they believe that the stock may be more valuable tomorrow than it is today. Whatever the company behind the stock does or does not do, really doesn't matter. AI glitters like gold today.

Yet to be seen if it tarnishes.

datakan 46 minutes ago||||
>"If Anthropic is the first to AGI, it'll take over every industry and go to the moon!"

Meanwhile the hyper advanced software company's shitty electron app still flickers so bad on a high refresh monitor that it should require an epilepsy warning. I'll never understand the love for Anthropic, they legitimately have the worst software I have used outside of Microsoft.

p-e-w 1 hour ago|||
Sure, and if it isn’t, investors just flushed a freight train loaded with dollar bills down the world’s largest toilet.
mxschumacher 1 hour ago||
the question is: who will rise in the ashes of the bust, in a world of abundant compute availability and an upgraded power system?
Avicebron 44 minutes ago||
Do we have an upgraded power system? I'm all for reforming our electrical infrastructure, but what I'm hearing is that we've got creaking infrastructure and the "supplement" is huge generators towed outside the datacenter...
mxschumacher 43 minutes ago||
gigantic order books for gas turbines and power grid infra, unless projects get cancelled, massive additional capacity is coming, yes.
HeavyStorm 1 hour ago|||
What the hell is 15% adjusted margin? Lots of mathmagic there I guess...
Kwpolska 1 hour ago||
The real number with standard accounting rules is a loss of $567 million (-3% operating margin). But they're adding in "Stock-based compensation expense" (~$1B) and "Non-cash charitable contributions" (~$2B), and they end up with a profit of $2.5 billion.
yorwba 50 minutes ago||
If you want to know whether the business is hemorrhaging money and will soon be bankrupt, excluding funny money they printed at no cost to themselves is perfectly sensible. Of course for the IPO investors, who're being asked to buy that funny money for real cash, it's a bit concerning if they give away so much of it to other people for less.
lofaszvanitt 1 hour ago||
It's going to skyrocket. :DDD
tietjens 1 hour ago||
"public benefit corporation" lol yeah yeah
p-e-w 1 hour ago|
This is a legal designation that means very little in concrete terms, and in particular, courts have held that “the public” does NOT have standing to sue a public benefit corporation to enforce that it’s actually working for the public benefit.
999900000999 55 minutes ago||
I’m very skeptical.

Deepseek and other Chinese models are close enough for most typical use cases.

This could seriously wreck our entire economy, so much of the stock market is propped up by AI hype.

Anyway, expect a massive government bailout for Anthropic and Open AI when the Chinese models prove to be more cost efficient.

Might not be next year, or even this decade, but it’s coming.

PS: A fear mongering campaign is already underway, Deepseek is going to give you communist code completion!

origini 49 minutes ago|
Frontier is frontier and Open Models from China are not.

Then in a corporate environment, were most tokens will be spend, you have security concerns, you also might want to go with one company over the other due to partnerships etc.

If USA is blocking chinese companies/models (which they already partially did), big companies will just not bother and use US AMerican models.

Also running it yourself is often not relevant. You don't want to know how much money my company spends on software products which could easily be replicated internally.

But running models yourself might be something you don't have expertise with, you need GPU ready DC, hardware, a new/diffferent team, quality assurances etc.

And Chinese models are known to leverage frontiermodels for post-training results.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to say chinese models can't disrupt the market massivly absolut possible, but its not given just because they are cheaper.

999900000999 33 minutes ago|||
> But running models yourself might be something you don't have expertise with, you need GPU ready DC, hardware, a new/diffferent team, quality assurances etc.

Absolutely nothing stops Microsoft/Amazon/Open Router( with partners) from hosting the Chinese models. As far as I can tell this is already the case.

This establishes a defacto price cap on what Anthropic and Open AI can charge. If you’re a heavy user blowing past 400$ a month self hosting becomes economical. A Mac Studio with 128GB of ram is about 6k.

Every day local tools are getting better, the OSX ecosystem here is exceptional.

You do have a point with frontier models, but most of the time you don’t need frontier models.

If I knew for sure I’d short Anthropic and retire early.

hello5010 35 minutes ago|||
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anentropic 1 hour ago||
Enshittification coming soon
_def 1 hour ago||
Let the enshittification begin
grendelt 1 hour ago||
Absolutely.

So what's the best primer we can share for getting started with local llms?

Avicebron 28 minutes ago|||
https://github.com/mlabonne/llm-course
throw1234567891 31 minutes ago|||
Buy a laptop with some RAM, and a decent GPU, install llama.cpp, or Ollama, or whatever you go, get a harness, you're off to the races.
ZiiS 1 hour ago|||
What is super odd about this is no-one expects Anthropic to prioritizes shareholders.
colesantiago 1 hour ago|||
> Let the enshittification begin

But is there a solution to this though?

How does one stop 'enshittification' of everything exactly?

I'm not talking just about Anthropic.

marginalia_nu 17 minutes ago|||
The solution is mostly not to go public. Valve is a good example of this.

Do well enough that you don't need outside investors, or if you take on outside investors select them carefully and ensure they don't expect an IPO.

palata 1 hour ago||||
One thing Doctorow suggests is to remove anti-circumvention, thus allowing adversarial interoperability.
tremarley 1 hour ago|||
Competition Enforcement

Strong privacy laws

Tech unionization

Mandated data portability.

mapontosevenths 59 minutes ago|||
Competition is important, but the way you fix that is by fixing the terms of copyright and patents.

Intellectual property, at it's simplest, is a government mandated monopoly granted to allow for progress in the sciences and "useful arts" (think trades really, not arts and crafts). All monopolies are bad, but it was only to be granted for a limited time so it was fine.

Corrupt politicians ruined the entire trade off though, and now it seems that copyrights and patents last for 100 years plus the life of the universe. During which time no one can really compete fairly.

If we want rapid progress in science, we want short patents. Instead we opted for long patents and a higher stock price. R&D budgets have been shrinking ever since.

colesantiago 1 hour ago|||
Has these successfully combatted against enshittification entirely?

Which places has this been successful?

Avicebron 55 minutes ago||
What are you talking about, these haven't even been tried because the corporate lobbyists know they work..
colesantiago 24 minutes ago||
> What are you talking about, these haven't even been tried because the corporate lobbyists know they work..

So what are you going to do about this?

Why not try them?

I don't know what you are on about but we want solutions not complaining about 'corporate lobbyists' and other conspiracy theories.

jfckenfishf 1 hour ago|||
Opus 5.5 has been terrible for me for the last week - so seems like they got the memo.

Luckily switching is super easy so I'm now back to codex (and hopefully carbon soon)

mococa 1 hour ago||
It already enshitificated from the very begin
windexh8er 1 hour ago||
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hello5010 38 minutes ago||
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sick_of_slop 53 minutes ago||
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VulpineQuanta 1 hour ago||
Ohh boo hoo rich entitled programmers hate the fact that the company makes your lives hard. Sorry I would feel sorry for you but I just can't reach.

After having that ambition thwarted for over 26 years and working like a slave counting other people's money {a career I hate every day} your collective despair gives my schadenfreude a delicious unending orgasmic thrill. You need literally no idea.

Just remember: no dreams never work out and work by definition is something you hate every day until you die.

ChrisRR 41 minutes ago|
Who are you talking to?
walthamstow 1 hour ago|
deleted
Kwpolska 1 hour ago||
The submitted URL is https://ipo.anthropic.com/us/ . I was redirected to /eu/ ("Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Ireland, the Netherlands, Norway, Spain, and Sweden").
fblp 1 hour ago||
I was redirected to https://ipo.anthropic.com/au/ for the Australian offering
Throwaway123129 1 hour ago|||
It seems to be geo-located. I get German retail offerings.
losvedir 1 hour ago||
The URL says `/us`. And it calls it a "roadshow", which is the term when the company and the supporting bank goes around to investors to pitch their offering.