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Posted by ajb 10/24/2024

Goodbye from a Linux Community Volunteer(lore.kernel.org)
225 points | 213 commentspage 3
ysofunny 10/25/2024|
of course this story is flagged by this point

clearly on line with CERN also getting rid of russians.

misiek08 10/24/2024||
So we’ve got into politics in software. Good lord (spaghetti one, of course)! I thought we already have problem with quality diving in IT, because of all those newcomers wanting money and laziness only.

Sad to see we learned nothing from hundreds of years of wars and occupations. Glad someone mentioned Poland and India. Millions killed by USA joining every war to just sell weapons to both sides of conflict - will be funny too when many people stop dreaming and see this is the truth.

Edit: of course I’m waiting for all this flagging and downvotes, because I’ve spoken badly about The Greatest Nation Ever.

whatshisface 10/24/2024|
Politics in open source is not new. I think one person in this thread has quoted a CoC. They did not always exist... :-)

What is new is hackers speaking in favor of nationalist boundaries, after having spent the 90s in opposition to things like cryptographic export controls.

anal_reactor 10/24/2024||
Some decisions are difficult and no matter what you do, it's going to be bad.
fuoqi 10/24/2024||
I don't think many Western developers understand how much damage Linus just single-handedly dealt to the accumulated respect and trust towards the Linux Foundation leadership. If you think that the Russian IT community will think "damn, this evil Putin, we need to overthrow him", think again after taking a look at these discussions (in Russian) [1][2]. And many developers from other countries (especially from China) certainly have started to think "hm, we may be next" and act accordingly because of that, e.g. by not actively participating in the Linux development in the first place.

They could've handled it MUCH better, most people understand that the removal by itself is understandable (properly navigating the current regime of sanctions is extremely hard and it's better for an US-based organization to be conservative, doubly so with people from the directly sanctioned companies like Baikal Electronics), but lack of transparency, sneakiness, and the extremely aggressive, unnecessary and dehumanizing remarks from Linus just the situation from unfortunate bad to extreme worse.

[1]: https://habr.com/ru/news/852962/comments/

[2]: https://www.linux.org.ru/news/linux-general/17766938/page3#c...

_w1tm 10/24/2024||
> the extremely aggressive, unnecessary and dehumanizing remarks from Linus

Linus being Linus. I thought he had gotten some comms training but it’s hard to change when you’ve spent most of your career communicating very directly.

llm_trw 10/24/2024|||
Linus and the Linux foundation breaking their own COC:

>In the interest of fostering an open and welcoming environment, we as contributors and maintainers pledge to making participation in our project and our community a harassment-free experience for everyone, regardless of age, body size, disability, _ethnicity_, sex characteristics, gender identity and expression, level of experience, education, socio-economic status, _nationality_, personal appearance, race, religion, or sexual identity and orientation.

shiroiushi 10/24/2024|||
I don't see "employer" on that list. Apparently, these people are being removed from their maintainership status due to their employer, not their nationality.
4bpp 10/24/2024||
I assume your interlocutor was referring to how he dismissed those who complained about the move as "Russian trolls" more than the original delisting itself.
lostmsu 10/25/2024||
This also refers to employment. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_web_brigades
oneshtein 10/24/2024|||
I don't see "war" in this list.
gn4d 10/24/2024|||
This is markedly different afaict. In the past, Linus was brash with individuals, and sometimes corporations, judging them by their actions (even if at times unfairly). Now he is demonizing people based on their country of origin, and citing historical military conflicts as justification for demonizing them.

The shark has been jumped.

Paradigma11 10/25/2024|||
Not wanting to support the Russian MIC that will be used against your home and family the next time Russia invades is not demonizing people.
gn4d 10/27/2024||
???
lostmsu 10/25/2024|||
> he is demonizing people based on their country of origin

No he is not.

> citing historical military conflicts

Historical?

Ah, I got it. That would be bad if this was his main argument, but it is not.

gn4d 10/27/2024||
Are you incapable of reading, or what?
lostmsu 10/27/2024||
From my perspective you are reading between the lines something that's not there. It is very strange to blame another person for your own hallucinations.

> he is demonizing people based on their country of origin

Quote?

gn4d 10/29/2024||
Are you incapable of reading, or what?
gn4d 10/24/2024|||
Well said.
0dayz 10/24/2024||
What's you point here exactly?

Without russia/China we're doomed? Is it the same for these two countries too if the west moves away from them?

And where exactly is Linus this evil strawman you created?

fuoqi 10/24/2024|||
My point is that do not act surprised when you will see a noticeable reduction of contributions from Russian, Chinese, etc. developers. Most of people leaving (or not joining in the first place) will not be as visible as the Sergey's goodbye. By itself it may not be a huge deal, especially in the near term, but it compounds with other factors like dwindling (relative) popularity of C and the recent Rust debacle.

>And where exactly is Linus this evil strawman you created?

"Strawman"? Sure...

https://typeblog.net/55833/getting-called-paid-actor-by-linu...

0dayz 10/24/2024||
>My point is that do not act surprised when you will see a noticeable reduction of contributions from Russian, Chinese, etc. developers. Most of people leaving (or not joining in the first place) will not be as visible as the Sergey's goodbye. By itself it may not be a huge deal, especially in the near term, but it compounds with other factors like dwindling (relative) popularity of C and the recent Rust debacle.

I highly doubt anyone would be surprised that people would not stop contributing if they agree with their country's interest in which said countries has questionable interests juxtaposition to USA's - which is where Linux is based.

If anything they would be surprised if they continue to contribute despite their country's geopolitical dumbfuckery and good for them, they got my support all the way.

>https://typeblog.net/55833/getting-called-paid-actor-by-linu...

First just going to state: Linus/Greg issue of lack of transparency is not something I've said that I'm neither agree/disagree with.

But nothing in this blogpost does very much of anything in showing some new revelation of Linus being a person who "dehumanizes" unless the phrase:

> I'm also not going to start discussing legal issues with random

> internet people who I seriously suspect are paid actors and/or have

> been ----->_riled up by them_<-----.

is somehow now synonymous with dehumanization.

But maybe I'm missing something, if so you're more than welcome to highlight where Linus has done something "dehumanizing".

jubalfh 10/24/2024||
“oh dear, how sad, nevermind.”
sharas- 10/24/2024||
alas
ein0p 10/24/2024||
[flagged]
guytv 10/24/2024||
Sanctioning individuals who aid a criminal government serves two purposes:

1) it applies pressure on that government and

2) ensures that we don’t indirectly support its crimes.

However, sanctioning an entire population — citizens who are already suffering under a leader who disregards their wellbeing — achieves little and seems more like an act of revenge than a strategic measure.

exe34 10/24/2024|||
[flagged]
ein0p 10/24/2024||
I get them from the UN and from watching the entire Gaza Strip get flattened with people inside, financed by my taxes. Where do you get your numbers?
exe34 10/24/2024||
where does the UN get their numbers? every bbc article that quotes the UN reluctantly adds (later on in the article) "according to the health in authority in Gaza", which means hamas.

I think hamas has achieved in practice something the Christians can only claim in faith - transmogrification.

a hamas soldier transmogrifies into an innocent civilian upon death.

even Sinwar would have been a UN teacher if his body hadn't been identifiable - he even carried a stolen UN teacher's passport.

coldtea 10/24/2024||
Those casualties are not the cause of the day from western governments (rather the opposite) so they don't matter /s
ein0p 10/24/2024||
“It’s ok when we do it”? I thought at least the FOSS community was above hypocrisy. Apparently not. And I get why there might be legal reasons (as tenuous as they may be) to not allow folks to be paid, but this particular dude was working for free.
coldtea 10/24/2024||
If it was just legal reasons it would be totally understanable. Can't go against the law - but you can voice your reservations against it. Instead Linus is celebrating this.
npn 10/24/2024||
[flagged]
globalnode 10/24/2024|
i think one of the hardest parts of writing an o/s would be drivers for the h/w
llm_trw 10/24/2024||
[flagged]
tivert 10/24/2024||
> The kernel has a gray hair problem.

> No one in the West wants to do volunteer work any more because it pays a lot more to work at Evil Corp and wave some flags around during the appropriate month.

I thought most of the kernel "volunteers" were actually working for some "Evil Corp" or another that was paying them to "volunteer" in some way related to the company's business.

sampo 10/24/2024|||
> No one in the West wants to do volunteer work any more because it pays a lot more to work at Evil Corp

This post is about an engineer in the East, who apparently works for a company called Baikal Electronics.

"BAIKAL ELECTRONICS JSC is a Russian electronics company that manufactures semiconductors and computer processors. Baikal Electronics JSC produces computer processors for the Russian military."

https://ge.usembassy.gov/targeting-russias-senior-officials-...

Do you somehow think these companies in the East are less Evil than Silicon Valley companies?

oneshtein 10/24/2024||
We need to know at which side of border you are to answer this question.
anal_reactor 10/24/2024|||
It's not only about work for Evil Corp being better. It's also about "how the fuck do I even start?"
Conscat 10/24/2024||
I'm confused why you insinuate that "flag waving" in June has anything to do with this topic. You frame it as though that is something developers tolerate because they are paid to, in contrast to how developers behave in volunteer work (demonstrably untrue).
llm_trw 10/24/2024||
I wasn't talking about you personally.

I was talking about the type of human who is shown in this commercial: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X55JPbAMc9g

We need to be very clear that they are human, and not a reptile wearing human skin and using human words to get to eat human babies.

yapyap 10/24/2024|
sad
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