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Posted by kretaceous 10/24/2024

Rider is now free for non-commercial use(www.jetbrains.com)
828 points | 422 commentspage 3
jdthedisciple 10/24/2024|
Have been using VS Studio for 10+ years and never used Rider.

What are the most compelling reasons to switch? I have heard lots of praise but little substance so far.

For .NET dev it seems hard for any IDE to rival VS Studio's tight integration with the whole MS + .NET ecosystem.

aithrowawaycomm 10/25/2024||
I am not sure why a C# dev would use Rider other than personal preference. But for a long time Visual Studio was genuinely terrible for F# and Rider was clearly superior: MS seemed to prioritize new features and .NET fads over stability and performance, and F# development had the worst resulting bugs. One of my projects from 2018-2020 couldn't even be opened in Visual Studio without crashing or freezing.

Sadly this has changed: JetBrains does not seem to care very much about F# these days, and Rider has similar bugs to what Visual Studio had in 2016-2020. It is a bad option for F# developers.

LandR 10/25/2024|||
On large solutions I find Rider to be so much faster than VS.

On very large solutions I've found VS to be completely unusable.

junto 10/24/2024||
Rider is an excellent IDE for .NET development. A lot less bloat than Visual Studio 2022. I’ve had a lot of my dev teams switch to it. We offer them both options. If you’re not working in legacy .NET Framework apps then I’d heavily suggest giving Rider a try.
jdthedisciple 10/24/2024||
This is exactly the kind of surface-level praise I often hear but what exactly is it?

Is it objectively (significantly) more performant?

How does the MAUI app development experience compare?

Code completion?

IIS-integration?

Debugging?

Look and feel?

WPF / XAML designer?

File explorer?

Git integration?

...

arcastroe 10/24/2024|||
It will come down to preference. The best tool for the job is the one you're familiar with. But if you've never tried Rider, I think it's good advice to try it and form your own opinion.

You might like the built in code completions, with the included local LLM. If you've used the Resharper plugin for Visual Studio, you might like that those features come included in Rider. Same with DotPeek, if you like to decompile dependencies to view implementation details. You might also like Rider's built in 3 way merge with magic wand to auto resolve easy conflicts.

If you also develop outside dotnet ecosystem, you might like that Rider has the same UI as Idea (java development) and Webstorm (frontend development), so switching between them is more familiar.

One thing I don't like about Rider is its inline type hints. I think they clutter the code and I usually disable them.

I haven't gone back to Visual Studio in a while, so I can't offer an honest comparison since my experience is a bit outdated.

(But to be honest, I don't really use Rider too much nowadays either. I've mostly switched to VSCode. So take this with a grain of salt. And apologies I didn't address the items you listed. I just wanted to point out the items I personally took note of)

muhbaasu 10/24/2024||||
It is definitely more performant in my experience. Occasional hiccups happen as well, but way less than with VS. Please note my experience with VS 22 is a bit dated because I moved to Rider a few versions ago (probably 17.8 or 17.9). Additionally, I haven't really used VS without the ReSharper plugin extensively so that's what I can compare Rider to.

Regarding your points:

> MAUI

No personal experience yet unfortunately on my part

> Code completion

At least on par, basically ReSharper with a few extras. Navigation and refactoring is great and comprehensive.

> IIS

Also no personal experience

> Debugging

Great debugger IMHO. Matches VS, predictive debugging is nice (deemphasizes branches it knows won't run), breakpoint conditions are great (only break on a certain thread, after another breakpoint had been hit, after n hits, ...), shows return values in the watch list automatically, etc.

> Look & feel

Probably personal preference: I prefer its more modern and focused look over VS. If you're into that, its Vim emulation plugin is superb.

> WPF

Not its strong suit. VS is way better here. Rider only has a preview. Annoying: it doesn't use themes for DevExpress-libraries correctly in one project at work.

> file explorer

Pretty much like VS

> Git integration

In my experience nicer than in VS. Exposes git's features more easily than VS. Take it with a grain of salt because I use the CLI mostly anyway.

I hope this helps a bit. But you're probably better off trying it for a while if you can.

tommybu 10/24/2024|||
Rider is a full-fledged, cross-platform C# IDE on par with Visual Studio (full version, not code). I have used a little bit of Rider and other Jetbrains products. It was some time ago, so take it with a grain of salt. On my windows machine Rider felt a bit snappier. Debugging was also great. Pretty much the same as Visual Studio. Code completion, code navigation and refactoring is at least on par if not greater with that in Visual Studio. Git integration is there, file-explorer is there. Haven't used WPF/XAML so don't know about that. Generally speaking if you buy the license for all Jetbrains' products to use WebStorm or other stuff they offer I think it is worth it. Or maybe you would want to develop C# apps on mac or linux then Rider is the go to. Other than that I wouldn't bother buying the license.
708733454927516 10/24/2024||
Activation required. Still a nice deal.

Also looks like an online account is required.

jdthedisciple 10/24/2024|
They seem very ... concerned.
dzonga 10/24/2024||
what does free for non-commercial use really mean ?

if you make a game, then it gets popular what happens ? or some .net api?

I'm always confused by such licensing terms e.g what ended up happening with Unity.

ubertaco 10/24/2024||
Are you going to sell the thing you're using Rider to build? That's commercial use.

If you're not going to sell it, it's probably not commercial use.

ozim 10/24/2024||
I think parent has an issue where at first he develops something he thinks he won't sell but later it turns out he has opportunity to make money on it.

My take would be, when decision to earn money one should buy the license for sure.

I don't think you can somehow pay for previous use and I expect no one will hold it against you.

But at the same time if you "develop non commercially" and you know you will be trying to monetize it most likely it will be hard to prove and no one has resources to catch every such case but remember that you become "big POS" for that.

bhandziuk 10/24/2024||
I think an unsuccessful commercial venture is still a commercial venture.
jdthedisciple 10/24/2024|||
They can be pity like that if they want but they shouldnt be surprised if they cant scale their customer-base anymore at some point.

Which is probably why they're beginning to change their strategy rn with this move ...

ozim 10/25/2024|||
In my comment I am fully giving into that you can write OSS lib or some free to use tool with no intent to monetize and then suddenly you have to change it.

Not that I believe in that scenario.

danparsonson 10/24/2024||
I'm not sure about the letter of the law but the spirit is: if you make money off it, then buy a license. I doubt they have any way to know that your weekend project became an income generator.
solarkraft 10/24/2024||
Microsoft should’ve done a Google and Licensed the JetBrains IDE for .Net. Visual Studio feels like Windows in all the worst ways.

Rider saved me some sanity when I had to work with .Net.

alex_lav 10/24/2024||
Rider is by far the best C# IDE. Especially if you're not running Windows. It was a real lifesaver while working with Unity.
jdthedisciple 10/24/2024|
Well, I'd wager most C# devs are ... running Windows, so...
alex_lav 10/29/2024|||
Unsure how true that is, but I certainly never did.

Rider is better either way, but definitely better than alternatives on MacOS.

adgrant 10/27/2024||||
I have developed projects using C# on MacOS with deployment on Linux Docker containers.
danparsonson 10/24/2024|||
That maybe true, but .NET runs natively on Linux these days too.
einpoklum 10/24/2024||
Many developers have gratis JetBrains license on account of being involved in FOSS. I'm in that category - have to apply each year for a license by referring to (one of) my FOSS library(ies).

It's just too bad that their UI is going in the direction of VSCode and others, become more... I guess I could say smartphone-like.

kernal 10/24/2024||
Is Rider nerfed as much as the free version of IDEA is? And if not, then why isn't there a free noncommercial version of IDEA? This seems like a smack to the face for Java developers that want to use the full version of IDEA for noncommercial purposes.
chupasaurus 10/24/2024|
Full version of IDEA is "make your own IDE" since you can add almost everything from their other IDEs.
jdthedisciple 10/24/2024||
In a way, it was about time:

How else am I supposed to get convinced into buying it given the (probably more mature) default choice of VS Studio 22?

Reading about the rationale for this move this seems to be precisely their reason too.

Anyway, might try it out after all now given all the fuss ...

KacharKhan 10/24/2024|
Limited commercial use 1 to 3 devs should also be freek as projects this small usually are just starting and aren't profitable yet. Beyond that, yes , it should be sustainable for the team to pay for commercial license.
askonomm 10/25/2024||
This is like hiring construction workers, but not having money to buy them a hammer and nails. This ridiculous notion that software developers need to use free tools and neither they or their employer can't pay for any is very odd to me.
KacharKhan 10/25/2024||
In developing countries , Rider's license fee is a non-trivial fraction of a developers pay.
askonomm 10/28/2024||
I'm not sure how much money do devs in developing countries make, but I have a all-products pack license from JetBrains, and I pay around 20 EUR per month, which is equivalent to like 2 starbucks coffees.
newaccount74 10/24/2024||
No. If you have money to pay for developers, you also have money to pay for tools. Especially since software licenses are going to be a tiny fraction of what the developers cost.
KacharKhan 10/24/2024||
What about 1 developer developing something for commercial use ?
innocenat 10/25/2024||
They also offer a personal license, which I would say should be affordable to any devs if they were getting money. Rider is $149/year for the first year, $119 for second, and $89/year for the third year onward.
KacharKhan 10/25/2024||
That calculation does not hold for developing countries. Rider's license fee is huge in countries with per capita GDP is a small fraction of USA's per capita GDP.
innocenat 10/25/2024|||
I think it is a reasonable assumption that developers in developing countries earn much more than the per capita GDP.

(I say this as someone from a Newly Industrialized Country and I easily afford the all product pack)

newaccount74 10/25/2024|||
We should probably look at developer salaries / hourly rates rather than GDP. Most of the people in developing countries don't need IDEs.

But yeah, if you work for low rates, then you have to work more hours to pay for your tools.

YourOrdinaryCat 10/26/2024||
> Most of the people in developing countries don't need IDEs

Most people in general, I would say. I haven’t tried JetBrains editors in a while, and the “developing country” definition is very unclear in my opinion (and also part of why I roll my eyes at the “what about developing countries?” argument sometimes), but I do think the yearly price looks good for WebStorm at least, as someone living in Colombia.

For reference, at the time of writing, the standard Netflix plan costs 26,900 COP a month, which ends up being 322,800 COP yearly. Meanwhile, WebStorm’s first year comes at 298,541.10 COP post USD -> COP conversion - it isn’t an insignificant sum, but if it offers significant added value, I think it’s a fair price, certainly better than the Netflix pricing. The second year is reduced to 237,967.54 COP, and the third to 177,393.99 COP - that last one is even less than what you’d pay for the Netflix basic plan over a year (202,800 COP).

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