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Posted by retskrad 10/25/2024

Smartphone buyers meh on AI, care more about battery life(www.cnet.com)
324 points | 331 commentspage 3
aithrowawaycomm 10/25/2024|
It has been especially frustrating to read about Apple Intelligence on my 2022 iPhone with iOS Safari, where some JavaScript bugs that have been around since 2012 seem to be slightly worse in the latest update, and occasionally the entire app just freezes for no good reason, even if I've closed all other tabs. Not to mention how often I have to reset my entire 2021 iPad because the audio drivers get into a bad state.

I suppose "stability improvements in WebKit" doesn't do much for Apple's stock price compared to SiriGPT. But this is feeling like death-by-1000-cuts: I don't think users are deeply committed to Apple UX/etc. I believe Apple's US market dominance is largely due to burnt fingers around Android's unreliability and annoyances between 2010-2020 (e.g. Google and Samsung not playing nice, badly orchestrated version changes). This was never a permanent state of affairs; Android has stabilized significantly and is more harmonized among competing manufacturers, while retaining its advantages on price and ease of development.

Apple seems complacent on the basics, and is overextending into an AI product few users seem to want.

ipsum2 10/25/2024||
People think of chatGPT now when they hear AI, but for on-device its more like speech recognition, image keyword search, and keyboard next word prediction.
zomg 10/25/2024||
what's a realistic use case for ai on a mobile phone? i have yet to find myself saying "gee, if only i had ai on my phone, i could do XYZ!"
1000100_1000101 10/25/2024||
On iPhone, if I take a picture of a plant or animal, it identifies it for me. It's not 100% by any means, but it's useful enough. I've figured out what were baby plants I wanted vs. weeds. I've figure out species of birds I'd taken photos of with my SLR (ie: phone takes picture of Lightroom editing the image, and is able to identify it from that... I'd prefer there was a way to not require me to take a photo of my monitor, either doing it "live", and/or adding the functionality into the Mac.) For people and pets it can find other images that contain the same subject.

When my daughter was studying Chinese, I could use the live-video translation app and see the lesson text translated to English, and see her hand-written answers also translated to English. I could see this being more broadly useful when travelling, along with live translation of spoken words.

HWR_14 10/25/2024||
While true your examples are AI, I believe in this case AI is being used in this context to mean LLM-based AI.

I don't know if LLM-based translation is better than previous translation models.

1000100_1000101 10/26/2024||
While the AI focus these days is on LLMs, AFAICT, the NPUs and GPU accelerators are just generically fast MUL, and MAD machines with varying precisions, which should help any AI, and even non-AI tasks likes image filter kernels.

Getting hardware to enable faster AI processing on phones should be good thing if used for useful tasks, LLM or not.

not_your_vase 10/25/2024|||
Well, I'm still waiting for an AI feature that recognizes my usage patterns, and adapts the system's behavior.

E.g. if it sees that I always reopen an application 2 seconds after the OS kills it in the background, then maybe it shouldn't be killed.

Or if I wake up 3 minutes before the alarm would go off, and take a trip to the toilet, maybe it shouldn't blow up the speaker while I'm frantically pulling up my underpants, but recognize that I'm already awake, or at least wait with the alarm until I'm around the phone again.

Or automatic backlight shouldn't go crazy when I walk in the night under the streetlamps, it should recognize that lamps are coming and going, and that backlight adjustment every 5 seconds is silly and annoying.

I could go on. IMO there is definitely a place for machine learning/AI in phones (and other places too), especially for quality of life thingies. Just nobody is doing them, I guess becacuse these are not as visible as image generation. My credit card has been ready to spend on such developments since at least 2021. One of these days I will have enough of waiting and do it myself, out of spite...

yunwal 10/25/2024|||
Spellcheck, voice control, voice-to-text, autocomplete and next-word-prediction are all some AI features that are already in use. Voice-to-text could certainly be much better if something like whisper was integrated. I pretty much never actually listen to voicemails, so having a reliable transcription there would be great.

I'd also love to be able to give commands that traverse multiple apps (e.g. take my google sheet and venmo request everyone the specified amount). Most likely this would happen by teaching an AI tool use and having apps expose an API.

I'd love to be able to give voice commands for certain things (e.g. flipping through recipes when my hands are wet) and have the phone be able to do the actual thing I want.

I actually think phones are a much better place for AI since they're so difficult to type on that voice could provide a higher-bandwidth interface.

jonathanlb 10/25/2024|||
One use case could be improving navigation directions. Right now, map apps provide granular, step-by-step instructions that include unnecessary details, such as how to exit your own neighborhood.

AI could provide more human-oriented direction that focus on key landmarks and decisions rather than every minor turn. For example:

"Hop on 80 West, cross the bridge, take Sir Francis Drake onto 101 South, take the Alexander Avenue exit, don't go through the tunnel, and your destination will be on the right."

diggan 10/25/2024|||
I'd love it if CarPlay/Siri just could read out stuff it finds on the Internet. Currently, all I can get out of it is "Sorry, I cannot show this to you right now" for basically everything except trying to control multimedia.

At one point, I had ChatGPT working via voice in CarPlay mode (via Shortcuts I think?), but seems like Apple disabled that at one point, for some stupid reason probably.

NovaX 10/25/2024|||
It will likely become available for application developers to use. At work, we use it to assist warehouse checkins by allowing the guard to take photos of the truck, paperwork, seal, etc and fill out the forms going in and out. If built-in then it can be run on-device, so over time a lot more workflows can be seamless.
jazzyjackson 10/25/2024|||
I used Google lens yesterday to get the artist name of a painting I liked, that was neat.
Syonyk 10/25/2024||
That's not "on a phone," though. That's just schlepping an image up to the Google data center, and getting a result back. That you're using the phone as an interface to a datacenter doesn't make it "AI on the phone."
chankstein38 10/25/2024||
The only one I use regularly is object replacement in photos. It's great for editing a street sign out of a picture of the sky or something, especially if you just don't want to dox yourself posting a pic. It's definitely not high quality most times. Just blurry redraw of what the background might look like.

Otherwise, totally with you. No idea why my phone needs AI. I can just open the ChatGPT app if I want to have a discussion with ChatGPT about something. I'm so tired of apps updating to "Add a new AI assistant!" like why do I need to talk to an LLM in most of the apps I use?

arnaudsm 10/25/2024||
I calculated and found almost no correlation (r=0.2) between battery life and price. Which is quite sad considering it's the most important feature to consumers.

Here's my write-up alongside some interesting dataviz : https://picked.arnaud.at/news/smartphone-data-science

rcarmo 10/25/2024||
Zero surprises here. I work with AI daily and am on the same boat.
drivingmenuts 10/25/2024||
In re: AI on my phone - it's sort of interesting, but really not worth having because it's not smart enough nor capable of being smart enough. It lacks "judgement", which is what I really needs, instead of slavish attention to detail coupled with hallucinations.
racl101 10/25/2024||
I could not care less about AI on my phone. I don't want to learn to use it nor do I want to give it free reign over my content. If I can disable it on any smartphone I own I will.

Of course, aside from checking email and calendar I don't do a lot of work from my phone.

itronitron 10/25/2024||
If AI makes some 'thing' look easy, then that 'thing' starts to look cheap.
Syonyk 10/25/2024|
> The biggest motivation for US adult smartphone owners to upgrade their devices is longer battery life (61%)...

Battery replacements are a thing. They're apparently not a common thing, unfortunately, because that might impact new phone sales... and even on devices where it's trivial, people don't seem to do it. A decade ago or so I was doing a lot of Nexus 5 battery swaps for people because one of the battery OEMs was shipping junk and the batteries were shot in a year.

I really wish OEMs would put bigger batteries in phones. It improves everything. Not only do you get longer initial battery life, you can handle far more "battery aging" before things stop working right. You still have a day's battery life (which I expect is what most people actually mean - they want their phone to last the day without thinking about it) even with capacity loss, and a larger battery can have more internal resistance increase (another factor of battery aging) before it sags too badly under the load to keep voltage up.

Based on the fact that easily 90+% of phones I see in the wild have cases on them, physical size and thickness isn't a big factor (and those newer folding screen devices are massive when folded). Another few mm doesn't matter when phones live in purses, men's pockets, or jackets.

... or just go back to a modern flip phone sort of device, get a week and a half battery life, and stop worrying about remembering to charge your phone. ;)

NoboruWataya 10/25/2024||
> Based on the fact that easily 90+% of phones I see in the wild have cases on them, physical size and thickness isn't a big factor

Well, people are probably going to put cases on their phone regardless, so the phone has to be thin enough that even with a case it's still a manageable size.

But I agree that battery is where phones ultimately fail most of the time. I have had a Samsung S10 for a bit over 5 years now and it is the battery that is going to force me to retire it and get a new one. Speed, storage, screen quality, camera quality are all perfectly fine for my use case. But the battery rarely lasts a full day with any kind of usage now which is annoying.

I would love a phone with a replaceable battery. But I agree that the average consumer won't bother, they will just get a new one (or they will have upgraded before battery life ever becomes an issue).

Syonyk 10/25/2024|||
So replace the battery? It's not some impossible task.

https://www.ifixit.com/products/galaxy-s10-replacement-batte...

It's slightly annoying to replace, but even if you have a shop do it, it's far cheaper than a new phone.

https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Samsung+Galaxy+S10+Battery+Repl...

NoboruWataya 10/25/2024||
I'm aware it can be done and have looked at the page on iFixit, and may end up doing just that. But as well as looking like a bit of a PITA to do it, I'm not particularly confident my phone will be good as new after I melt the glue and pry it open. My point is that it would be great if replacing the battery was as simple as clicking off (or even unscrewing) the case and taking it out, like it used to be. Granted, I probably couldn't take my phone swimming with me, but I think I could get over that.
marcosdumay 10/25/2024||||
People didn't put cases on all phones at the time they could survive small falls and were thick enough to handle.
jandrese 10/25/2024|||
IMHO the era of "we assume you're going to have a case on this" was cemented in place the instant the camera bump appeared. If you can't set you phone down on a service without it being all tippy thanks to the off center camera bump then you're clearly expected to stuff it into a case that is at least that thick.
Syonyk 10/25/2024||
Yup. I'd rather the phone be that much thicker, loaded with battery.
Sohcahtoa82 10/25/2024|||
> Based on the fact that easily 90+% of phones I see in the wild have cases on them, physical size and thickness isn't a big factor

Everyone says this, but I wonder if the sales data says otherwise, because device manufacturers, especially Apple, REALLY love to advertise how thin their devices are.

Personally, I don't want a super thin device because I feel like the slightest bending force is going to snap it in half. It's absolutely wild to me that people will store their phones in their back pocket.

Syonyk 10/25/2024||
Apple's mobile division still seems to struggle with the ghost of Jony Ive. At least their laptop division was willing to rethink things with the Apple Silicon transition and go back to things that worked.

The late Intel-era portable Macs were simply broken, because of Ive's apparent obsession with "thin for thin's sake." Or, more probably, "thin for the sake of industrial design awards." They innovated 20% too much on keyboard design with the butterfly keyboard that was simply a bad design. I don't know what else to call a keyboard that reliably breaks after a few years of service. But, bad though that it is, it was even worse because you couldn't replace the keyboard. You had to replace the whole top case and battery, at something like $700, when one key went bad, because the whole thing was integrated to save a mm or two. Not only did they un-solve a solved problem (reliable laptop keyboards), they even un-solved the ability to replace a keyboard when it gets mangled, or something spills in it, or a random failure happens.

But, worse, they went with the USB-C only design (the thinnest port!), meaning that every owner of one of those laptops I knew had a pile of assorted adapters in their bag so they could do things that most people want to do every now and then with a laptop, like drive an external display for a presentation, read a USB-A storage device, or read a micro SD card. Yes, the laptop was thinner, but at the cost of needing to carry extra stuff with you to work around the lack of ports.

And then, because it was so thin, they didn't have space to properly cool the zorching-fast Intel chips they put in them, and the chips would throttle badly while baking the machine.

The M-series laptops, shocking me incredibly, threw all that "design" out the window, and went back to something actually useful. They cool well (admittedly, that's mostly the Apple Silicon barely needing cooling), they fixed the keyboard, and the machines have a useful set of ports on the side for "common tasks with a laptop" (SD, HDMI, headphone, plus the USB-C/Thunderbolt ports - still no A ports, though). And then enough battery to last just about forever.

Anyway, I hope their phone division works this sort of thing out too.

jandrese 10/25/2024||
I just did a battery replacement on a Pixel 6a. It wasn't terribly expensive, $18 for the whole kit, but the process was very nerve wracking. Unlike Apple's relatively friendly rubber cement Google used some kind of industrial adhesive to glue everything together. You need a good amount of heat to loosen it, but not too much because that will damage the phone. There's a fine line. They do include a helpful strap for removing the battery, but you have that awful glue to deal with. The cherry on top is the slippery little spring clip connector you need to remove without damaging the board underneath.

All in all it made me pine for the days when you could just pop the back off of the phone and yank the battery out to replace it. Personally I think I could live with a 0.8mm thicker phone that still has this feature. Also a headphone jack while you are at it.

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