Top
Best
New

Posted by tech234a 3/29/2025

Upcoming Windows 11 builds cannot install without internet and Microsoft Account(infosec.exchange)
268 points | 282 commentspage 2
squarefoot 3/29/2025|
When you're forced online, you become less resistant to products and services being fed from the cloud, then computers can be produced cheaply with less storage and resources, and almost everyone will end up running dumb terminals. It doesn't happen overnight, but more and more people would rather buy a 150 bucks PC plus pay per use services rather than a 250 one that can host and run installed software, then the market would do the rest by making real computers more expensive as they transition to niche products. I'd rather start familiarizing with open and less intrusive operating systems.
ungreased0675 3/29/2025||
Windows 11 is the reason I’ve returned to Linux after a decade away. Microsoft doesn’t seem to be concerned about killing the golden goose. I wonder if they have data on just how much hostility users are willing to put up with?
atemerev 3/29/2025|
The golden goose is now Azure. Windows is (or will be soon) a free complementary OS to make more people use Azure services.
sagolikasoppor 3/29/2025||
The only issue with that is when you switch to Linux, alternatives to Azure is much more compelling. I would never use Azure services unless I'm on Windows.
ungreased0675 3/29/2025|||
Could you explain this a bit more? I happen to like Azure, probably because I understand it a lot better than the other cloud platforms. What’s the connection to Linux OS?
yoyohello13 3/29/2025||
I use Azure every day at work and I’m honestly baffled anyone could have this opinion. The interface is slow to load, when it works at all. I’ve had my log tails just strait up crash not allowing me to debug for hours. The documentation it ok, but if you want to do anything that’s not c# it’s a fucking nightmare.

I was recently trying to integrate EasyAuth OIDC with a custom IdP and it was a terrible experience. No logs indicating why it wasn’t working. I had to dig down into the configuration xml schema to discover EasyAuth didn’t even support client_secret_basic auth method so we couldn’t use it in the end. Every product is like this. Great if you do everything MS wants you to do exactly, but if you have any requirements not blessed by Microsoft you’re SOL.

atemerev 3/29/2025|||
Well, I do. I still like Outlook, and it works good enough as a web app. Same for OneNote. Azure as the development platform is crazy, of course. But I also have a friend who I respect much, and who is probably a better engineer than me, who likes Azure and completely unproductive with AWS, so _maybe_ that's a matter of taste. Just like tabs and spaces. I prefer spaces, but whatever.
sys_64738 3/30/2025|||
> I still like Outlook, and it works good enough as a web app. Same for OneNote.

This I find baffling. Outlook and One Note are some of the worst applications known to man. Clunky interfaces and confusing messes to navigate.

herbst 3/29/2025|||
I prefer managing my own hardware and find both Azure and AWS very unproductive for anything else than huge, big traffic, projects. Not sure if that has to do anything with my OS choice.
mjmas 3/29/2025||
Perhaps they could actually ship some wifi/ethernet drivers with their installer then.
0dayz 3/29/2025||
That Xbox employee that was smugly and fanatically defending the always online fiasco way back (who ended up getting fired for defending the sales pitch) must be screaming.
zkmon 3/29/2025||
Good old days - when the software was a box full of floppy disks or CDs which you buy at a store and bring them home and modify registry settings etc.

Software is no longer a product like a chair and table which you can just buy and move it from the store to your home. It is more like a managed service like a utility connection. It is available for use only as long as the vendor allows it. You buy a subscription and play nice. The buyer might also not have the admin user privileges on the software they bought with their money.

The same might happen to cars and all other smart devices as well. Cars might always be connected to the car company, which might have some remote control over the car. Phones are already like this. It is a matter of time, all your home appliances are partly controlled by the companies who sold them.

Kab1r 3/29/2025||
Is there a good reason (other than licensing and Linux as an alternative) I shouldn't use Windows Server 202X as a Desktop OS?
Cyphase 3/29/2025||
I've heard tell that some software out there will refuse to operate on Windows Server because of licensing, like perhaps they want you to get a business license. I have no evidence at hand, but something to look into.
zahllos 3/29/2025||
I worked at a software vendor where we would check the type of product and yes you needed our server product to run on their server product, whether or not you used the server as a server.

Not all software does this but I also don't recall it being unusual.

sgjohnson 3/29/2025|||
You don’t need to use the Server SKU. LTSC exists. It’s basically the Server version, but without any of the Server stuff.
kasabali 3/29/2025||
To be pedantic, Server 2022 is a newer build than any Windows 10 version.
sgjohnson 3/30/2025||
For Windows 11, all editions (11, 11 Enterprise LTSC, Server 2025) are 24H2.
3np 3/29/2025|||
IDK about today but back when I hard work that required Windows that's how I stayed sane.
jmclnx 3/29/2025||
These days there is no reason to use Windows at home. Just move to a distro like Mint or Ubuntu. It will save you money and help stop filling up Landfills.

I am on a 10+ year old Laptop with Slackware, for desktop use it is just as fast as any modern Laptop with Windows, I would even say it is faster.

Also you will find Libreoffice is just as good as M/S Office. Just ignore the fud. FWIW, I believe many foreign countries will start migrating to Linux and I heard that is already happening in China.

dharmab 3/29/2025|||
> These days there is no reason to use Windows at home.

I have two, sadly.

1. I use my Windows PC for flight simulators. While many simulators will indeed run under proton, the hardware devices (VR, joysticks, throttles, pedals, panels, etc.) usually will not, or at best run with minimal functionality.

2. I develop cross-platform software and need a Windows PC to test that environment.

A third for some people:

3. There is no great alternative to certain visual media software. e.g. Affinity Photo/Adobe Photoshop has no equivalent on Linux. No, GIMP is not anywhere near equivalent- in the same way that Nano is not equivalent to Visual Studio Code.

jasonriddle 3/29/2025||
To add onto 3, I do my taxes every year using either the desktop version of Turbo Tax or H&R Block. They only make Mac or Windows versions of their software.

I've read online that people have attempted to use wine in order to emulate the Windows environment with no success.

sys_64738 3/30/2025|||
https://cash.app/taxes
dharmab 3/29/2025|||
I use FreeTaxUSA for my taxes, works great for me.
sys_64738 3/30/2025|||
> These days there is no reason to use Windows at home. Just move to a distro like Mint or Ubuntu. It will save you money and help stop filling up Landfills.

Old Intel based computers are terrible for power usage. Modern computers that are ARM based are much better for the environment.

hulitu 3/30/2025||
> Modern computers that are ARM based are much better for the environment.

And modern computers that are Zen based are even better. You can do real work on them, instead of sitting idle all day. /s

southernplaces7 3/29/2025||
cough, https://massgrave.dev/genuine-installation-media cough
khaledh 3/29/2025||
Microsoft knew they were losing the client device market to iPhone and Android (after their Windows Phone flopped). So they essentially gave up on improving Windows, and decided to turn it into a thin client for Microsoft cloud services. For this model to work well, they need to force users to have a stable identification, aka Microsoft account, in order to login to the thin client.

Windows is over. I moved to Apple silicon a while ago and never looked back. Even though macOS has its warts, it's not hostile to its users.

hnlmorg 3/29/2025||
I remember an interview with Bill Gates around 2000 (maybe even late 90s) where Gates said that the future of software was online subscription.

He even stated back then that he’s have Office run over the internet if he could.

Another example of this is how Xbox Live has been a thing since the original Xbox. Long before iOS and Android. And more recently, Xbox Live has become more than just a subscription service but a full on streaming platform.

Let’s also not forget that traditionally enterprise licenses for Windows would be billed annually. By this, I don’t mean someone purchasing Windows Server for their home lab, but actual data centre use. (I’m pretty sure this was the case, been a long long time since I’ve gone through a Microsoft audit, let alone been purchasing data center licenses, some someone do correct me if I’m misremembering here).

So I don’t think any of this is a knee jerk reaction to Apple and Google eating their market. I think it’s always been their long term strategy but it’s just taken this long for the wider industry to align.

Now with the gaming market being increasingly subscription based, other software vendors switching pricing format (eg Adobe) and the internet being far more accessible than ever, MS are in the best place they’ve ever been to press home the final missing piece: Windows Home.

daveoc64 3/29/2025|||
>Windows is over. I moved to Apple silicon a while ago and never looked back. Even though macOS has its warts, it's not hostile to its users.

It's also very naggy about signing up to iCloud and using an Apple Account.

It doesn't force you - but it's still annoying.

sys_64738 3/30/2025|||
> Windows is over. I moved to Apple silicon a while ago and never looked back. Even though macOS has its warts, it's not hostile to its users.

You can also move Mac OS X out of the way by running an ARM Linux VM on the Apple ARM computers.

disqard 3/29/2025|||
I don't know why you were downvoted.

This really appears to be the simplest explanation -- turn every desktop into a thin client, served by walled-garden apps, and with Azure integration/dependencies.

Then charge subscription fees to turn all computer owners into renters. Oh, and show ads too, while you're at it.

khaledh 3/29/2025||
Thanks. The subscription model is now almost the default for everything. Investors like the steady stream, which makes sense financially. But unfortunately it has resulted in much lower software quality, because software shops now don't have to make a high quality, solid version that they sell once; they can just ship MVPs with bugs or missing features and tell you that we'll work on fixing/adding those features, just keep your subscription and you'll get it.

I miss the days when you bought a high quality version of something that you kept using for years.

throwaway48476 3/29/2025||
MacOS is less hostile but still very hostile.
userbinator 3/29/2025||
"Challenge accepted." Much like with the TPM "requirement" and the others, I don't expect this one to stay undefeated for long.
Tepix 3/29/2025||
Why fight a piece of software with other motives hen you can choose one that is aligned with yours instead?
userbinator 3/30/2025||
No software is perfect, and people might not want to "fight" with Linux either.

Besides, it's a good challenge; this site is called Hacker News, after all.

chii 3/29/2025||
the true victory is to move to linux. unfortunately, that's been harder than it needed to be, and it's mostly due to inertia of old software and network effect of windows.
BrenBarn 3/29/2025||
I've made the switch, but there are still occasional things for which I need to boot into a Windows VM.
aboringusername 3/29/2025|
Does anyone have an idea if you were to enable wifi and register a MS account exactly what data is being sent to them? Do they send your MAC address? Obviously your IP address and I assume during account creation they would want your phone number/alt email? I can see Windows not being accessible as some places genuinely don't have internet, and if they do, it's heavily restricted. I've also heard if you enter something like "a@a.com" or a banned email during setup it can let you through?

Obviously this is a way of 'legitimizing' consent to data collection and it would be very interesting to see a breakdown of every byte of data MS gets sent (even file explorer communicates with a US IP address).

I genuinely think the EU needs to take a look at this, I would be very surprised it this wasn't abusing their monopoly-like position for mandatory data collection (although, they probably welcome it!).

More comments...