Top
Best
New

Posted by cruzcampo 4/11/2025

The thing about Europe: it's the actual land of the free now(www.economist.com)
160 points | 256 commentspage 2
haunter 4/11/2025|
Hungary exist though, not just in Europe but in the EU. And it’s the perfect sample of what the GOP want to achieve in the long run.
mathw 4/11/2025||
Hungary sadly shows us that the EU's defences against one of its own members going rogue are very poor. No doubt a relic of the idealism in which it was founded - we're all nice people, of course we're going to stay that way.

And also the pragmatism of not handing over too much control from national governments to the EU bodies.

cruzcampo 4/11/2025||
[flagged]
haunter 4/11/2025||
Hungary is so far down the road that I won't believe Fidesz can be beaten in legit elections
cruzcampo 4/11/2025||
[flagged]
baal80spam 4/11/2025||
This could be written only by a Non-European.
spikels 4/11/2025|
Author is European

https://mediadirectory.economist.com/people/stanley-pignal/

penguin_booze 4/11/2025||
A quote picked from Reddit: "America has become what the British thought Australia would".
pjc50 4/11/2025||
(paywalled, commenting on above the fold section)

> There are thus no European Rasputins pumping untold millions into political campaigns, getting pride of place at leaders’ inaugurations or their own new-minted government departments to run

I think this is underselling the very real risks of European-style fascism, driven by the same social media and other forces, just because it doesn't exactly resemble Musk. But it does seem like the crisis is now compelling the cozy ""centre"" to actually do something, like re-armament and actually prosecuting politicians for their financial fraud. Not just Le Pen but previously things like Wirecard.

jabl 4/11/2025||
Modern European democracy is indeed not immune to fascism (or something resembling it, to stave of a quibble of what actually fascism means). Most prominently Orban in Hungary. Poland was well on their way towards something similar, but luckily a major electoral defeat caused a reversal of this development.

Most European countries do have their own far-right parties (like Le Pen in France, AFD in Germany, etc.). But with multi-winner districts and lots of other parties, they struggle to gain anything resembling a majority that would enable them to rule by fiat. Also politics in most European countries is much more parliament driven, with the prime minister having a lot less power and more oversight than e.g. the US president.

sigmoid10 4/11/2025|||
>like re-armament and actually prosecuting politicians for their financial fraud. Not just Le Pen but previously things like Wirecard.

In the end, all those things can be traced to curbing Russia's direct and indirect warfare. Re-armament? Direct Russian threat. Le Pen? Financed by Russia. Marsalek? Part of a Russian spy-network that operated from Austria, where the FPÖ is not just financed by Russia but also has a literal cooperation contract with Putin. Similar story with the AfD in Germany.

The US used to be good at this as well. If they were as close to the war in Ukraine as Europe is, they might still be. But instead they have gone from being the biggest opponent of Russia to one of it's most subverted supporters.

rbanffy 4/11/2025||
We have plenty of foreign Rasputins to complain about, as well as some local ones.
hintymad 4/11/2025||
> Yet to many Europeans the idea that free expression is under threat seems odd. Europeans can say almost anything they want, both in theory and in practice.

What about the 60 Minutes segment from February 2025, where CBS correspondent Sharyn Alfonsi interviewed German prosecutors about Germany’s strict hate speech laws? The report, aired on February 16, 2025, discussed how German authorities can raid homes and seize devices over online posts deemed offensive, such as hate speech, insults, or misinformation. The prosecutors, including Dr. Matthäus Fink, Svenja Meininghaus, and Frank-Michael Laue, explained that German law allows police to act against speech that incites hatred or insults.

I'm particularly concerned that "hate" and "insult" and "misinformation" can be so subjective. That's why the US 1A protects even hate speech.

And what about British police arrested people who post memes online for the similar reasons?

hnburnsy 4/11/2025||
Yeah, I guess if free means 'free to fine tech companies to the tune of 30 billion dollars', sure it is free.
Doches 4/11/2025||
https://archive.is/0D1Ov
huntertwo 4/11/2025||
Isn’t encryption illegal in the UK? Can’t you go to prison for social media posts making fun of politicians? Isn’t there low economic growth caused by restrictive regulation? Seems like the political class runs stuff over there.
fulafel 4/11/2025||
I'd assume that when a UK publication writes an article like this, it refers to Europe as separate from the UK (esp as the UK is not mentioned).
a2128 4/13/2025||
Do you think the UK just can't access most of the internet that uses SSL encryption? What makes you think encryption is illegal?
brickfaced 4/11/2025||
Land of the free, where police raid your home at dawn over mean tweets:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/09/09/pimmelgate-g...

https://archive.ph/hETjp

Not a one-off, either:

https://nypost.com/2025/02/21/world-news/germans-cant-insult...

croes 4/11/2025||
"In March 2022, the investigation was dropped due to a lack of public interest in prosecution.In August 2022, the Hamburg Regional Court also ruled that the house search was unlawful and unreasonable."

Freedom doesn't mean that no errors are made but that they are aknowledged as errors.

The responsible politician still gets rediculed for that and isn't praised by his fanbase.

pjc50 4/11/2025|||
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgj5nlxz44yo
lm28469 4/11/2025|||
There are hour long videos of US cops shooting unarmed people in their own homes available online if you want to make a "LaNd Of ThE FrEe" dick size contest
rspoerri 4/11/2025|||
The laws are different: "Incitement and defamation laws are far broader in Germany than in the United States, with some European legislation on the books that forbids defaming leaders and makes Holocaust denial a crime.".

You are not allowed hate speech on the internet in a lot of countries. You will be prosecuted for that.

But different to other countries, in a majority of the european countries (turkey, greece are currently problematic) people are not deported, put in jail or camps and forgotten, even without a sentence and hearing.

brickfaced 4/12/2025||
You're right, not nearly enough people are deported.
foobahify 4/11/2025||
[flagged]
spants 4/11/2025|
Is it April 1st still?
More comments...