If you are working 9-9 x 6 to build a $10 billion company, why not double your head count and halve the hours? If you build that mega unicorn, there will be plenty of money to share and still have more than you will ever need.

Or do the 996 thing and try not to think too much about your Alzheimer’s and heart disease filled future. Maybe leave a big gift to the hospital that takes care of you before you die at way too young of an age.

I'm currently running 10,2,7 because I'm on fire and need to get the things in my head out into the world, but the idea that I would expect anyone I was working with to pull that kind of weight is just insanity. I sit down and the day flies by as I build foundational software, but that's my passion, my quest. I would only expect that sort of intensity from a collaborator asking for a 50/50 split.

I worked for a 996 founder in a faced paced startup recently - after busting my ass for 5 months he fired me for not delivering fast enough despite creating an entire platform from scratch

Now I’m was old enough to realize the risk- but given this job market which absolutely sucks for developers but I see young twenty something’s getting influenced by stupid catchphrases like 996

I also don't agree that any employee should have to work as much as the founders.

But one point that needs to be made: You don't need to sacrifice your health to run a startup. You can get your 8 hours of sleep and exercise every day and still run your startup.

This notion that you have to get 3 hours of sleep and ruin your health is simply a choice - don't do it.

I am curious -- What the average allotted amount of paid time off is at places that implement the 996 system? I truly do not know, but I would wager it's probably not great either, relatively speaking.

I also question how much work is actually being completed in such an environment. I have never worked in nor been to Japan, but I do recall reading/hearing about how rough the work culture is over there.

However, I have read/heard that people aren't nose-down in work the entire time. It's not uncommon for people to be in the office for long periods while not actually working.

Rather, it's more about the image -- don't leave before your boss, the later you leave after your boss the better you look, etc..

So, I wonder if the Chinese 996 systems somewhat mirrors what I have read about Japan?

The biggest problem with this is outsized gains for the company compared to the employee. You sacrifice time with loved ones, wellbeing, mental health… to churn out extra hours for some Series A firm that won’t think twice about showing you the door in a down round.

I’ve seen founders work round the clock again and again. That kind of makes sense.

But Stebbings… I’m not going to put 996 in for any firm in your portfolio. And anybody who does is a mug.

This 996 bullshit is a skill issue. Need extra hours at school to finish your work? That’s a shame, all the clever kids are at home already (working on their side hustles that are 10x more likely to pay off).

It doesn’t surprise me that this stems from China: a place where ‘face’ and hours-behind-the-desk culture are extremely prominent.

People should be able to show up, put a shift in and go the fuck home. Sometimes there are reasons to work a little longer…

But expecting this kind of behaviour is objectively shitty leadership.

Companies that promote the "996" culture (working from 9 am to 9 pm, 6 days a week) are a major red flag for any employee. This model might only be justifiable for a founder with a huge equity stake, never for an average employee without extraordinary compensation. Furthermore, these extended hours don't usually translate into greater real productivity.

This debate is part of a critical redefinition of work. Technology has increased productivity, but wages have stagnated, breaking the social contract. As in the past with labor laws, urgent change is needed to avoid a crisis, prioritizing a quality life and a legacy to be proud of, not senseless exploitation.

996 when working on your own business: normal, expected, and in most cases even required.

996 as an employee: screw that. It might be "worth it" if you command a massive, exec-level salary, but for the overwhelming majority of people it's just foolish.

I have only truly worked this level of intensity at special moments in my career where I felt connected to the mission and people. We were building something very cool. And we all felt immense joy in the craft.

Never at any time did anyone tell us “work X many hours”

If people actually want hard working employees, maybe the answer should be culture first? Hire great people that love working together, on a cool problem, and they’ll do what’s needed? Trust them.

Hiring for 996 says to me you don’t care about innovation or excellence. It says you suck at hiring great talent. And it signals you, as a leader, may not have a healthy relationship to work or leadership. You want control, not excellence.