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Posted by bookofjoe 5 days ago

Removing yellow stains from fabric with blue light(phys.org)
136 points | 81 comments
colechristensen 2 days ago|
> The blue light reduced the yellow stain substantially more than hydrogen peroxide or UV exposure. In fact, UV exposure generated some new yellow-colored compounds.

Here's the key piece of information for me, it's not just light doing this or higher energy blue being close enough to UV to get things done, the blue light tested outperforms UV at destroying some of these yellowing compounds.

It would be nice in followup research to see Figure S8 [1] with an additional dimension for irradiation with various frequencies, not just 445 nm.

It looks like Amazon has some "therapy bulbs"[2] close to the correct frequency for $30, now I wish I hadn't thrown away some of those old yellowed pillows so I could do some science.

1. https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acssuschemeng.5c03907

2. https://www.amazon.com/Aumtrly-Light-Therapy-Irradiance-Cove...

gorthmog 2 days ago||
As an aside, this technique is also used to remove the "yellowing" from Apple II computers:

https://youtu.be/aFGS9xaaO_M

There's even special formulas of hydrogen peroxide, arrowroot, and oxyclean, with raging debates on the proper ratios, how long to keep them in the sun, etc:

https://www.callapple.org/vintage-apple-computers/apple-ii/s...

djmips 16 hours ago|
I feel like the removal of yellowing from things like Apple II computers known colloquially as 'retrobriting' as showing in your video is more the use of peroxide compounds which are not used in the article.

"The blue light reduced the yellow stain substantially more than hydrogen peroxide or UV exposure. In fact, UV exposure generated some new yellow-colored compounds."

emsign 2 days ago||
This is basic low tech from centuries ago, people used to spread out wet sheets on fields of tall grass.

I dry my linens outside (I'm not American), and no chemical bleach beats the effectiveness of the sun turning oxygen and water to peroxide.

giraffe_lady 2 days ago||
There are some really striking paintings of it!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flemish_Market_and_Washing_Pla...

Though I think this is possibly a depiction of a step in linen production, rather than the maintenance of used linen.

But anyway yeah it used to be a normal part of life people were used to seeing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bleachfield

xattt 2 days ago|||
There is probably some math to do about the availability of free radicals from bleach versus a set period of sunlight at a certain time of year, in a certain part of the world.
kccqzy 2 days ago||
I tried drying linens and clothes outside the first time I moved from an apartment (with strict controls on what can and cannot be seen on the balcony) to a single family home. I quickly stopped because there was so much dust that would accumulate on your freshly washed clothes in the time they were hung outside. That's not to mention bird poop or feral cats deciding to do some stretching on your sheets.
objektif 2 days ago||
You need a sun room.
sonofhans 1 day ago|||
I agree. I like my sun room to be upstairs of the smoking lounge, but next to the library.
kccqzy 1 day ago|||
That's no longer "basic low tech from centuries ago" any more. Centuries ago there wasn't transparent glass, only colored glass (think stained glass in an old church).
jondea 2 days ago||
I'm surprised it isn't mentioned in the article, but you can get rid of yellow stains by putting your clothes out in the sun.
davidhyde 2 days ago||
> “ After heating the swatches to simulate aging, they treated the samples for 10 minutes, by soaking them in a hydrogen peroxide solution or exposing them to the blue LED or UV light. The blue light reduced the yellow stain substantially more than hydrogen peroxide or UV exposure. In fact, UV exposure generated some new yellow-colored compounds.”

They did test with UV light. The sun is broadband (it will have both blue light and uv light) so it works to a degree. The insight is that uv generates some new yellow coloured compounds and only using blue light prevents this.

goda90 2 days ago||
A light filtering glass cover that lets blue through but not UV could work for the while still using sunlight.
prism56 2 days ago|||
Was going to say. This is very well known way to get poo stains out of reusable nappies and baby wipes.
contrarian1234 2 days ago|||
A bit of a naiive question, but does this age the clothing?

For instance "color-bleach" (which I guess is peroxide with other stuff) makes cloths disintegrate if used too often

giraffe_lady 2 days ago|||
In my experience no not really. I'm sure it has some effect but compared to chemical bleach or even just using a clothes dryer the wear is not noticeable.

When you do it with actual flax linen it is quite stiff afterwards and it may form permanent creases if you treat it in certain ways immediately after, depending on the weave. But that's to some extent always true with linen.

Guestmodinfo 2 days ago|||
I'm not a chemist but my two cents because I studied a course of Industrial Inorganic Chemistry in my college. My professor of that course used to say Hydrogen Peroxide is a very strong carcinogen. So I hate every Tom Dick n Harry that yaps about the goodness of Hydrogen Peroxide on YouTube or elsewhere without mentioning that it will give you cancer even in small amounts. And yes UV disintegrates the fibres so the more you keep your clothes in the sun or in UV then they will look old. Source: I live in India with too much UV andif I keep anything under the sun for a couple of days then it looks old or atleast no more new to be worn fashionably.
therealpygon 2 days ago|||
Your professor was teaching Industrial chemistry. At industrial (undiluted) strengths, there aren’t many chemicals that can’t damage tissue or potentially cause cancer. Constantly breathing the undiluted fumes or other exposures will certainly carry some risk in an Industrial application.

Washing clothes in a dilute peroxide solution is not going to cause cancer, therefore simply walking outside to hang your clothes carries substantially more cancer risk than the use of Hydrogen Peroxide.

Saying it causes cancer in “small amounts” is a bit like shouting at someone that stepping on a twig is destroying the entire forest…while standing next to an inferno.

thrgfu568 2 days ago||
Do you wear gloves when you handle your H2O2 cleaning laundry solution?

I dont, but I dont care.

therealpygon 14 hours ago||
I’m neither ingesting, inhaling, nor bathing in it, so I don’t care either, nor would I be concerned to wash my hands in it were it needed. Just drinking water or being outside is more than enough exposure to cancer to be worried about.
kragen 2 days ago||||
Doesn't seem to be on the IARC's lists of known and probable carcinogens: https://www.cancer.org/cancer/risk-prevention/understanding-...
thrgfu568 2 days ago||
And yet local production of peroxides by inflammation is probably the causing agent most cancers.
kragen 2 days ago||
Well, it's part of the cancer process; most cancers couldn't survive without it. But that's also true of, for example, local production of DNA, or anaerobic glycolysis, or angioneogenesis.

It's not true that if you expose tissues to lots of H₂O₂ they'll get cancer.

thrgfu568 2 days ago||||
I'm also not a chemist... but I do have a PhD in mtls science from a top 10 program. My dissertation was on computational chemistry on organic compounds.

You're 100% right.

As long as the photon is energetic enough, it can cause a radical and therefore break a chemical bond.

Brighter the sunlight, more peroxides (or radicals) made, more damage to your skin or your cloth's fibers.

This is also why anti-oxidants are so effective at protecting the body, why inflammation is so damaging (body produces peroxides to eliminate what it believes is a threat), over consumption of food, too much/little exercise, etc. they all affect peroxide concentration or their halflife.

metalman 6 hours ago|||
right, been glancing at this thread, and what occured to me is that blue light from LED's having a bleaching effect, specificly on yellow(cebum) organic compounds, then implys that it's not just(famously) hard on our eyes, it's frying them, and possibly worse. I certainly mind a brite screen, and keep it at the minimum level, except when in sunlight or useing my phone to show family and customers things. There are other effects to mass use of high powere LED's, where seagulls are flying around in downtown Halifax, NS in.the middle of the night, which I see now, but never happened with the old mercury vapour street lighting, which was it's own kind of wierd, in that it's bright yellow light from a distance, but makes everything under them monocromatic.IE: something in.the LED light wakes birds up.
Guestmodinfo 2 days ago|||
Nice to meet another Materials Science person. I only did bachelor's in Materials and Metallurgical Engineering. Hi:)
refurb 2 days ago|||
What’s old is new again!

When I lived overseas my laundry was often dried in the sun and it’s amazing how fast the color is bleached out.

jama211 2 days ago|||
The sun isn’t a blue LED
IAmBroom 2 days ago|||
Blue LEDs aren't magic. They emit a narrow bandwidth of light, and the Sun emits all of that bandwidth of light and more.
jama211 21 hours ago||
I’m aware… I think you missed my point
533474 9 hours ago|||
The number of commenters who think UV light is the same as sunlight...
internet_points 2 days ago||
probably useful if you live in Seattle though =P
MattBearman 2 days ago||
I wonder if this is related to yellowing plastics? Retr0brighting with peroxide and sunbriting (putting yellowed plastics out in the sun) are already common treatments in the retro community. I’ll have to give it a try on some of my old hardware
emsign 2 days ago||
This changes the best practice for retr0brighting from using UV or sunlight to 445nm blue LED. I already knew from anecdotes that sunlight seemed more effective than a UV lamp. People assumed it was the extra heat, which may or may not still be a contributing factor, but I guess it's the blue light prt of the sun's spectrum.
dahrkael 2 days ago|||
isnt the sun the one yellowing those plastics?
jama211 2 days ago|||
UV can trigger the chemical reactions within the plastics that yellow the plastics, but UV + peroxide does a different chemical reaction to bleach them.
emsign 2 days ago|||
Both is true
iwontberude 2 days ago||
Exactly my first thought, thank you for trying it!
waltbosz 2 days ago||
We used cloth diapers for our babies. Residual poo left yellow stains that the washing machine did not remove. Sunlight removed the stains completely.
aeonfox 2 days ago||
So are they going to put blue LEDs in clothes dryers now?
gus_massa 2 days ago||
It looks like a good idea. Do they survive the high temperature for hours?

(Also, the additional energy/heat will help drying, so you pay for the hardware but the energy consumption for the light is totally free.)

ghostly_s 1 day ago||
LED packages are designed to radiate the heat in the opposite direction of the light, and they would need to be sealed behind some barrier away from the damp clothes anyway.
gus_massa 1 day ago||
Just make the fresh cold air from outside pass through the heat sink and then go to the red hot resistance and then to the cloth.
nashashmi 1 day ago||
or clothe washers.
pmontra 2 days ago||
The report linked into the post gives an extra piece of information, the Watts.

> 445 nm; 1.25 W/cm2

ghostly_s 1 day ago|
1.25 watt/centimeter² ~= 853.75 lumen/centimeter², eg. not a terribly exotic brightness assuming you are ok treating a small area at a time. One of those small LED light panels would probably be in the right ballpark if you positioned it very close to the target.
pmontra 1 day ago||
Let's model a shirt with a cylinder, and let's flat it in to rectangle. Some 50 cm x 100 cm could be OK for a quick estimate. It's 5000 cm, so 6.25 kW if we want to make it work fast. The OP wrote about 10 minutes. Let's relax it to a little more than 1 kW not to be inconvenient to other home activities and we get a 1 hour time. Probably that will help with heat management too.

But 50x100 is not particularly large (think of bed linen) and yet it could take a lot of space in a house. Maybe some small area handheld device that one can apply to stains and leave it there until it turns off with a timer?

fuzzylightbulb 1 day ago||
If there was a solution for sun-yellowed (originally white) Lego bricks I would be a major user!
schrectacular 1 day ago|
Similar recipe:

https://thebrickblogger.com/2020/06/restoring-discolored-leg...

cladopa 2 days ago|
My grandmother already did that putting clothes in the sun of Spain.
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