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Posted by xyzal 2 days ago

Germany is not supporting ChatControl – blocking minority secured(digitalcourage.social)
1092 points | 350 commentspage 3
another_twist 1 day ago|
I dont get it, what problem are they trying to solve ? This kind of regulation stirs up a lot of shit and just wastes everyones time.
mutkach 2 days ago||
Why would you really need something like that in a non-totalitarian state? Basically, it follows the russian playbook (essentially the same 'language' - safety concerns), but instead of the FSB, who is the beneficiary actor in this case?
pembrook 2 days ago|
Many people working in government wish they were administering a totalitarian state, and would be the beneficiary actors.

Government is a job that self-selects for people who either want safety (non elected jobs) or power (elected jobs) more than anything else, given it pays far less than the private sector. Both the safety people and the power people want to reduce public freedom and the ability to do things.

The only way we keep these people from this is the threat of voting them out of their jobs. But they are more motivated than we are, so they usually win over time.

ktosobcy 2 days ago||
Maybe an ECI (european citizens' initiative) that would burry the thing for good? :)
arlort 1 day ago|
That's not how laws work. New laws always override old laws so an ECI (or any law) won't ever replace active participation in the res publica
ktosobcy 1 day ago||
That's true, but that would be a huge signal of a rejection. What's more - changing such law would be slightly more complex than just introducing the backdor IMHO.
arlort 1 day ago||
> would be slightly more complex than just introducing the backdor

Not really, both things need to be done by a law. So it's the same signal and complexity as just rejecting the law when it's proposed

And the second option at least does away with the pretension of permanence people like to use as an excuse to wash their hands of interest in politics

liendolucas 2 days ago||
Apparently Italy will support it. This is absolutely infuriating and it will fail miserably. Encryption can't he stopped no matter what law gets out there and any politician voting in favor shows how ignorants they are.

Instead of discussing WHY "owned" mobile phones have a short lifespan and we can't truly do whatever we want with them (be at the hardware/software level) and forced to choose between the apple and google duopoly, we get into these lousy law debates about privacy.

Why doesn't the EU put effort in paving the way for a more open and free tech world when we rely 100% on propietary technology that comes from the other side of the Atlantic?

guappa 2 days ago||
Because USA sends their ambassadors to threaten you if think the free market is free and decide to no longer buy from them.

https://lwn.net/Articles/1013776/

arlort 1 day ago|||
> Instead of discussing WHY "owned" mobile phones have a short lifespan and we can't truly do whatever we want with them (be at the hardware/software level) and forced to choose between the apple and google duopoly, we get into these lousy law debates about privacy.

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20240419IP...

https://commission.europa.eu/strategy-and-policy/priorities-...

AlgebraFox 1 day ago||
Encryption cannot be stopped. But Android and iOS can be backdoored. These evil companies lock down our devices, does not allow apps to run without their approval, and selectively push updates from their servers to our devices.

This is a wet dream for governments.

ur-whale 2 days ago||
Funny how the map shows a clear north/south divide (modulo some nordics).

Looks like latin cultures don't really care about being spied on by they governments.

andrepd 2 days ago||
"Latin cultures" is a really wild way to put it, when Denmark has been the most prominent promoter of the initiative.

This is a map of the government's positions, not even the parliament much less the public, and therefore a picture of whatever happen to be the parties in charge at the current time.

riffraff 2 days ago||
ireland and latvia, classic latin shenanigans.
reorder9695 2 days ago||
In Ireland this isn't something the public really even knows was proposed, I highly doubt the public would be in support of this, although can't be sure about it. You would think given the country's history they wouldn't be in favour of government overreach in this way but you never know.
monegator 2 days ago|||
* There is absolute ZERO information about this in the news, not even from the privacy authority

* There is little to no faith in our elected officials, especially from _that_ side

* Also people don't seem to care, all invested in the "i have nothing to hide" mentality

xeonmc 2 days ago|||
Where do Switzerland fall on the map?
Dilettante_ 2 days ago||
Switzerland is not a part of the EU.
izacus 2 days ago||
"Some nordics" are MOST of the nordics, meaning - all the north though.
lofaszvanitt 22 hours ago||
Just replace politicians with AI. As soon as the systems are reliable.
nabla9 2 days ago||
As long as I remember there has been these initiatives in EU. They have been all blocked so far, or turned into something reasonable, but there will always be a new try.

"Think of the children" will never die.

tannhaeuser 2 days ago||
It's easy to blame EU lobbyism, but as the situation in UK shows, the EU legislative process can also used to save us from ourselves.

That said, how come we haven't seen massive antitrust action against the likes of Google? You only have to follow the money here.

rsynnott 2 days ago|||
Oh, not just the EU. This sort of thing is about as old as generally available public key encryption. An early example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipper_chip
krunck 1 day ago||
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Horsemen_of_the_Infocalyp...
dev1ycan 1 day ago||
The real question to me is, why is Europe and Europeans okay with America and American software companies having access to their logs (encryption can be bypassed take whatsapp for example, do you honestly bellieve that Facebook does not have access to whatever is typed on whatsapp and/or can give it to authorities if necessary?) or discord, which if you are on mobile tells you via a title what the conversation you're having is about, is automatic message scanning not involved there? but the EU and or European countries cannot?

If we go by the idea that America should not either, then go ahead and do something about it, all this seems to me is just some weirdly motivated "activism" that may or may not be originated from the source that actually has access to said data at the moment. I am going to go with the belief that people are not naive and instead they are acting maliciously about this knowing very well that this already occurs, but only for a specific side.

HexPhantom 2 days ago||
Honestly, this whole ChatControl proposal reeks of the "think of the children" excuse being used to push through mass surveillance
palata 1 day ago|
I think many genuinely just want to increase security for their people. Not mass surveillance and orwellian control.

They just don't understand why it's technically not possible to achieve what they want without unacceptable risks.

Similar to the climate change issue: no politician is aiming at having their children die before retirement age from the consequences of climate change. They just don't understand that they are pushing us there (like most of the people, to be fair).

wtbdbrrr 2 days ago|
someone has to prove illicit connections to private companies and potentially black markets. the data is guaranteed to end up in the wrong hands which will have a worse impact on the lives of citizens, workers as much as educated ones, and definitely officials; how to better gain dirt on someone if the law supports breaking encryption and they falsely believe their state of the art messaging app is worth more than the skeletons in their closets?

at the least the basic human rights and privacy laws should be on everyones' side ... except rapists, the many kinds of violent abusers, murderers, especially the genocidal kind, drug punchers, and these fuckers roofying kids in clubs and bars just to have sex ... I probably forgot some ... sorry I didn't stay on topic.

As Freud wanted to let us know, the ageing rich are perverts with enough means to hide any crime ... then they made him bend over and invent the Oedipus complex, ffs

the only way for them to create an argument for ChatControl is more terrorism or some fucked up crimes against children so this damn thing is a sure-fire shitstorm with recursive, bad yields.

nickslaughter02 2 days ago|
https://balkaninsight.com/2023/09/25/who-benefits-inside-the...
wtbdbrrr 1 day ago||
big thanks.
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