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Posted by chmaynard 1 day ago

No science, no startups: The innovation engine we're switching off(steveblank.com)
680 points | 457 commentspage 2
rthrfrd 1 day ago|
Startup = disruption = threat to existing control.

If you love control and have control, why would you want to create fertile ground for startups?

(This was meant as devil's advocate, not my personal point of view).

aeonik 1 day ago|
That's short term thinking.

You can't stop innovation across the planet, you will lose control over time as adversaries continue to innovate and subsume antiquated control structures.

Larrikin 1 day ago|||
All the people in charge currently are banking on being rich, enjoying society as they have made it, and then dead before it personally affects them.
dexwiz 1 day ago|||
I dunno about the last part. Rich people under 60 seem to be under the impression they might live forever, either biologically or digitally. Within our lifetime we see people trying to make their digital twin their legal heir.
portaouflop 1 day ago||
I get the longevity angle (even if I think it’s not possible or even desirable) but digital twin I don’t understand. It’s like a different person altogether. Even if it was possible to completely clone a persona digitally it would not be you but someone else.
nemomarx 1 day ago|||
Much like grooming a natural heir, you can hope that someone will keep your legacy going, make decisions you would make, run your business, and so on.

I can see it as a rational strategy if you're worried successors won't be up to the job.

dexwiz 1 day ago|||
I totally agree with the ridiculousness of it, but that's not going to stop people with outsized egos from trying. Or companies that are trying to ride the coattails of a cult of personality.
ninetyninenine 1 day ago|||
Nah it’s more complicated than that. They need to lie to themselves first. They need to build a scaffold of logic that proves and justifies there actions before they do it.

Hitler for example thought he was justified. And so do all the people who claim global warming isn’t real.

ortusdux 1 day ago||||
Everything that is happening in the US screams short term thinking. It feels like the scramble after a leveraged buyout.
terminalshort 1 day ago|||
Funny that you mentioned an LBO, which is a strategy that requires long term success to succeed.
bluecalm 1 day ago|||
Currently the biggest US companies are throwing hundreds of billions into an uncertain bet that may pay off in a decade or so while everyone around is screaming "bubble" at them.

It looks like long term risky bet on new technology to me - exactly what you want those rich capitalist do.

teeray 1 day ago||||
> That's short term thinking.

Which is exactly what our system encourages. You don’t need to think beyond the next quarter / election cycle. You’re only in it to extract as much wealth in the short-term as possible and secure your chair before the music stops playing.

api 1 day ago||||
Yet it’s a mistake companies and societies repeatedly make, because human brains are wired for zero sum games and paranoia. When you have it, the instinct is to clutch and guard and hoard not grow and expand.

When a company or a society is threatened the usual response is to double down on things that accelerate decline like killing novelty and innovation.

These things worked when we were small primates fighting over limited food sources on the savannah. Our brain stems don’t know what millennium they are in and still run those programs.

rthrfrd 1 day ago|||
Oh I completely agree.
cjs_ac 1 day ago||
> Countries that neglect science become dependent on those that don’t. U.S. post-WWII dominance came from basic science investments (OSRD, NSF, NIH, DOE labs). After WWII ended, the UK slashed science investment which allowed the U.S. to commercialize the British inventions made during the war.

> The Soviet Union’s collapse partly reflected failure to convert science into sustained innovation, during the same time that U.S. universities, startups and venture capital created Silicon Valley. Long-term military and economic advantage (nuclear weapons, GPS, AI) trace back to scientific research ecosystems.

The US has an extremely entrepreneurial culture, which is why Americans are so good at building innovative businesses. In the UK, money is seen as grubby and the class system has consistently placed barriers between those with ideas and those with money. Similarly, the Soviet Union struggled to make use of its innovators due to the strictures of central planning. Australia punches well above its weight in scientific research but is unwilling to engage in any economic activity other than digging rocks out of the ground and selling them to China.

So the idea that scientific research is a limiting factor in economic growth is not general; it's specific to the US and countries with that same entrepreneurial culture.

howerj 14 hours ago|
The UK has an extremely entrepreneurial culture as well, which is shown in the data (number of businesses registered, number of startups, both per capita), it ranks very highly, along with other indicators of innovation, it might not be as entrepreneurial as the USA, but globally it ranks very highly. The fact that you mention the Soviet Union and its central planned economy and the (outdated and stereotyped view of the) British class system almost like they are equivalent really undermines your point as well.
echan00 1 day ago||
this is great except nobody who should read this article is reading it
fundad 1 day ago|
The people who should read this article and won't are actually an anti-growth movement. The silicon valley bros I work with are lapping up the sabotage because they want a lower standard of living in America and less science and innovation because they are already comfortable enough. Their sites are set only on the short-term gains of anti-Muslim and anti-abortion sentiment and "though talk" on immigration. Results are not that important. They claim that there would be enough funding if universities funded it with their endowments.

The anti-government sentiment is frankly anti-American. Even the ones who are naturalized don't know the basics about how ballots are validated ("If my wife vote with a provisional ballot, couldn't just anybody?"). I thought there was some testing for naturalization but it must be easy to cheat.

Anyone who convinced themselves that "economic anxiety" was actually a thing should talk to any MAGA or "centrists" about the present state of the economy.

terminalshort 1 day ago||
SV bros want less science and innovation, and are anti-abortion / anti-immigration? Have you been to SV?
aredox 11 hours ago|||
See: https://archive.is/GxSLU
utopiah 7 hours ago||
Thanks for bothering with the reference but not convinced the echo chamber is ready for that.
utopiah 17 hours ago|||
Maybe they meant before X/Twitter.com, before Google, before Meta, before... wait, what's left? PayPal mafia much? Anduril? Oh you meant startups? That will then be bought by those?

There is an ideal of SF but SV isn't SF, definitely not non-tech SF.

So... you might think of a version of SV that existed, maybe, at some point. It might even still exist as some rebellious employees of those large corporations but in practice people with the money and power in SV I believe now are pretty much with such a stance, yes, sadly IMHO.

Wind has turned, in SV too.

runako 9 hours ago||
Great post. I would love to see someone connect the long-term increase in Americans' wealth with our ability to develop and harness new technologies. And conversely, how much poorer we can expect Americans to become if that cycle is slowed/stopped.

I've seen similar articles about trade & the UK (and now the US). I'm sure someone has done or is working on similar analysis for science & engineering.

jleyank 1 day ago||
If you want new disease treatments and cures, you need to fund applied science (using the aforementioned definitions). Follow-on compounds can almost be engineered, but finding novel targets and coming up with candidates is a research problem. And dealing with the side-effects that appear can flip back from engineering to science. The Ozempic class of compounds has done wonders driving research in obesity and (I think) addictive behaviours.

Bringing it to market requires money and management and luck. Many/most of the promising candidates fall out along the way.

mindscrawler 11 hours ago||
The race for quick profits is eating away our future innovations.
DarkNova6 11 hours ago|
*The race for quick profits is eating away our future.
Agraillo 1 day ago||
When dealing with patents, public interest, and their consequences, Bell Labs should be treated separately imo. My vague recollection of the book The Idea Factory [1] and a brief search indicate that AT&T was always treated as a special case due to its status as a regulated monopoly. This status at least culminated in the 1956 Consent Decree [2], which required making all prior patents royalty-free and (as I read elsewhere) mandated that all future patents be licensed on reasonable terms. Given Bell Labs' well-known portfolio-including the transistor, laser, CCD, DSP, and fiber-optic-related patents, this shows a significant exception to how other companies might have innovated and monetized their innovations.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Idea_Factory

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_System#1956_Consent_Decre...

sillywabbit 10 hours ago|
Not to be confused with:

https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262731423/the-idea-factory/

rester324 19 hours ago||
What pisses me off the most about this, is that CEOs still preach about how life-long learning is a must. Stop that fucking bullshit, will ya? If you as a CEO don't give a flying fuck to invest in knowledge, than you have no right to preach from that high horse of yours to do that myself.

edit: to clarify I am arguing against putting in the effort on my own expense which benefits the company because I need to foot the bill which the company should have, so I am not arguing against such self-improvement which obviously benefits me

wosined 16 hours ago||
So is gender research or feminist queer dance theory studies a part of basic or applied science?
dxdm 12 hours ago||
> So is gender research or feminist queer dance theory studies a part of basic or applied science?

People's ideas about how humans should live together can be beneficial for the wealth and well-being of whole societies and its members. Was Rousseau part of basic or applied science?

We can wonder about how useful certain efforts are, of course, especially in all their extent; but I don't know how wise it is to dismiss things _wholesale_, just because their application is not immediately apparent and the rejection fits into the political current. The unnecessary snark is just sad to see here.

ryandv 9 hours ago||
> Was Rousseau part of basic or applied science?

This one is easy - neither. The term "science" has gone through semantic dilution in a manner similar to how everyone is now an engineer - software engineer, prompt engineer, sanitation engineer.

Falsifiability is one of the key distinguishing characteristics of a proper science, as famously propounded by Karl Popper.

"Gender identities" not only can not be falsified, they should not be falsified, because that would amount to transphobia; denying the existence of someone's felt and lived gender identity is the definition of transphobia.

Since they cannot be falsified, nor even directly observed, measured, nor quantified, they are not scientific notions.

The closest most well-studied analogue to the "gender identity" is the legacy religious notion of "the soul," to which you will see you can ascribe most, if not all, of the same attributes as ascribed to the "gender identity."

ziply 7 hours ago|||
Depends on the circumstance, surely? If someone is claiming a "felt and lived" identity to justify an action that infringes on the rights of others, is that not reason enough to deny it?
ryandv 7 hours ago||
Obviously not [0].

[0] https://news.sky.com/story/fresh-trans-prisoner-row-as-girls...

gizzlon 12 hours ago|||
> feminist queer dance theory studies

I dunno, but how many % of research in terms of money and effort do you think is spent on that? 0,0001 % ?

BobaFloutist 8 hours ago|||
> gender research

It depends, this could be medicine or it could be sociology or it could be psychology, there's a few different places it pops up.

> feminist queer dance theory studies

This is very obviously performing arts or maybe something in English or Social Studies if the "dance" part is the specialization rather than the core. I doubt even the most died-in-the-wool woke-fessor or whatever would call it "science," which makes it pretty irrelevant to the current conversation, though just because something isn't STEM doesn't mean it's not important (though it might be significantly less lucrative).

Vektorceraptor 15 hours ago||
The author is just a scripted NPC.
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