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Posted by jxmorris12 10/28/2025

Tinkering is a way to acquire good taste(seated.ro)
470 points | 381 commentspage 2
Theofrastus 10/29/2025|
I moved away from tinkering, ever since I had to juggle family, job, chores, and social contacts. I don't want to spend the little free time I have fixing broken configs. Instead of rolling my own self-build NAS / home server like I used to, I just have a Synology now. I moved back to Windows after I fcked my graphics driver on linux and didn't have enough time to fix it in a day or two.

Still, I love the tinkering spirit, and it still is a part of me, but it's not very pragmatic to implement in my life nowadays.

nonethewiser 10/29/2025|
For many things, tinkering is a hobby. Obsidian note keeping strategy is another one I see a lot. No thanks. I'll just brain dump into files in a flat directory and use search if I ever need to. Do whatever works for you but I'm not going to take notes in a way where my ability to take notes requires maintenance.
wiseowise 10/29/2025||
You can literally use Obsidian as a plain text dump with search, nobody is forcing you to use advanced features.
nonethewiser 10/29/2025||
Sure. But that's specifically not what I'm talking about.
KalMann 10/29/2025||
As a person who doesn't do much tinkering the thing I dislike about this article is it doesn't really get across to me why the author likes tinkering so much or why I should either. Not saying that the article is bad but I was curious about the author's mindset and felt he didn't talk more about the appeal of tinkering.
bakugo 10/29/2025|
> is it doesn't really get across to me why the author likes tinkering so much or why I should either

It's literally stated in the second paragraph: "It’s how I learn." You can learn how the things around you work by tinkering with them.

Of course, you can then ask why someone would want to learn things, or why they enjoy learning, and I honestly don't know how to explain that, but I feel like it's the sort of thing that shouldn't need to be asked.

SoftTalker 10/28/2025||
I used to tinker with fonts, colors, etc but as I’ve gotten older I just accept the defaults in most things. You can waste any number of hours on that stuff and in the end it makes very little difference.
heavyset_go 10/28/2025||
Fonts are like my dotfiles, I fucked with fonts.conf a decade+ ago and have just lived with that since then.

So I get to be very particular, but also not have to care about tweaking, I did all the work back when I had time for that.

I will argue that if you stare at a screen for hours a day, might as well make it pleasant with good hinting/anti-aliasing/features and a professional font instead of Dejavu Sans lol

opan 10/29/2025||
I wish this viewpoint were more common/well-known. Somehow people get it in their head that people are tinkering with all their stuff constantly and never working, but just as TFA says, you'll have configs that haven't changed in over 6 months and are customized to your liking so you can work more efficiently and comfortably. Get a new PC? rsync configs over, or git clone your dotfiles repo or whatever. The work you put in doesn't disappear.
jonplackett 10/28/2025|||
I wish I could tinker with the font on this website. It flickers as it scrolls and does my head in!
mediumdeviation 10/28/2025|||
It's the scanline effect, here's three lines of JS to disable it from the developer console

    s=document.createElement('style');
    s.textContent='body::after{display: none !important}';
    document.body.appendChild(s)
porphyra 10/29/2025|||
I maintain a personal dotfiles repo on github, and when I start at a new job etc, I just git clone my dotfiles repo and then run ./setup.sh and everything is set up nicely with my fonts, colors, and stuff. It didn't take much effort at all and I get to use what I like. And I haven't tweaked my dotfile in years.
Loughla 10/28/2025|||
And from an accessibility standpoint, default fonts and colors are very safe as well. They tend to be easier to see and process.
Herring 10/28/2025|||
I still tinker as I get older, except instead of fonts I'm buying a dual monitor setup with a 6-foot standing desk.
Cannabat 10/29/2025|||
My life hack for switching fonts - buy a Berkeley Mono license so I cannot possibly use any other font bc I’d be wasting money. Nice font too.
SchemaLoad 10/29/2025|||
Feeling the same. I used to have a highly customised Liunx setup, then I got a macbook from work and hated everything that was different from what my linux desktop did. But eventually you just get over it and realise it's all fine and works. Being unfamiliar with something is different from it being bad.
dineol 10/28/2025|||
^^^ this, with life coming more to the ending part you start to value your time that you got left

tinkering is good when you're < 30 or maybe even < 25

soiltype 10/29/2025|||
> No time spent learning, is time wasted.

From TFA.

If you don't want to tinker, don't! But it's absurd to suggest that it's only something for children to enjoy. (30 should not be considered near the end of your life btw.) Please don't tell others they should feel bad about learning for fun because they're adults.

heavyset_go 10/29/2025|||
Tinkering is good no matter how old you are, this is weird gatekeeping
aaronbrethorst 10/28/2025||
Or in this case, tinkering with fonts simply reduces legibility.
Brian_K_White 10/29/2025||
Tinkering with fonts is the only way to get fonts that improve legibility by replacing ambiguous glyphs with unabiguoius. ie programmer fonts. Every day it boggles my mind that password managers use fonts that don't distinguish 1Il| 0O etc. cut & paste does not help when you need to speak them into a phone or type them into some other device. Same applies to simple part numbers, serial numbers etc, just all data.

Something I say about complainers applies here:

In the entire history of the world not one thing has ever gotten better by accepting something as it is.

Go ahead and never tinker, but don't delude yourslef it's a virtue. It's merely something you're free to do because it doesn't actively harm anyone else.

CuriouslyC 10/28/2025||
The irony of an article about taste displaying little of it.
30minAdayHN 10/28/2025||
The fact that the author went out his way and styled it very uniquely displays that he does have taste :) It is just that your taste is different. Like another commenter pointed out, I liked the style (though I hated the pixelated font to begin with)
uncletoxa 10/29/2025||
I don't mind any color palette or font or anything as long as it keeps text readable. But this choice is just user unfriendly. These horizontal black lines across the display just render text unreadable. Not to mention that sans serif for a longread is also a bad taste
scuff3d 10/28/2025|||
Funny part is he points out at the end that it's highly subjective...

I actually really liked the look of the blog. It gave me a retro vibe, which is obviously what he was going for. But I'm also reading on my phone. Maybe the choice was more annoying on a larger screen.

grugagag 10/29/2025|||
Once one gets over the infatuation phase one realizes how subjective taste really is. I thihk there are some common points though that one can tell someone has refined taste without necessarily liking it
adamddev1 10/28/2025||
I just came here to say I think the blog design had a really cool look, it brought me back to my early days plugging away on old Apple IIes and IBMs.
joshdavham 10/29/2025||
Could someone here pitch me on neovim?

I'm a VSCode user and when I hear people talk about neovim and it customizability or its productivity, I think to myself "VSCode is also very customizable and there's a lot of ways to get a lot of productivity out of it, why would I use neovim?".

Surely there's something I'm missing? Does it help you stay more in the flow or something? Is it because it's faster? Maybe it's because it's an editor you can easily use while ssh'd into a remote machine? Please enlighten me!

bavent 10/29/2025||
Most of the things I do with Neovim I could probably also do with VS Code (not sure about autocommands and macros though, I haven't used Code in years). I don't use a mouse much, I have a very keyboard-centric workflow. I was a Code user for years, but did most everything else in the terminal. I figured I would give it a try and I ended up just liking it. I like to tinker. I like to tweak my configuration. I like how I can set autocommands for things, pipe text into Vim and manipulate it, or record a quick macro for some repetitive task. I like that there are "Vim keymap" plugins for things like Firefox, so learning basic Vim keys has helped me outside of Vim. I like that I keep discovering new things Vim can do (and then promptly forgetting them most of the time, but still). I also like to spend 2 hours writing something to automate something that saves me two seconds.

It's absolutely not for everyone, though it looks like some of the pre-built configs (NvChad, LaZyVim, etc.) are decent enough of the box now that you don't need to go on the endless-customization journey if you don't want to. To me though, that's the appeal: tinkering, tweaking, refining. Generally when people ask if they should use Vim, I tell them probably not but try it for a few weeks and see if it clicks in your brain. I had a great VSCode setup, everything worked great, I was productive, but something about Vim just made more sense to me once I got over the hump of modes and all the keymaps you need to turn into muscle memory.

Edit: I also like that I can do abominations like:

("def" @keyword (#set! conceal "ƒ"))

("if" @keyword (#set! conceal "?"))

("unless" @keyword (#set! conceal "¿"))

("else" @keyword (#set! conceal "∶"))

("elsif" @keyword (#set! conceal "⁇"))

("case" @keyword (#set! conceal "⟨?"))

("when" @keyword (#set! conceal "→"))

("begin" @keyword (#set! conceal "⌊"))

to make Ruby look absolutely insane. Is it useful? No. Do people hate it when I share my screen? Yes.

holysoles 10/29/2025||
I'll second the enjoyable parts of Neovim shared above, and add a few more of my own: - vi uses most of the same default keybindings, which is available across most distros (in busybox). Meaning I can use the same keybindings in a docker container, appliance server, etc. - With the conform[1] plugin, I can add any CLI code/text formatters that might not be available as a vscode extension. As long as it takes a file/stdin and outputs a file/stdout.

[1] https://github.com/stevearc/conform.nvim

lock1 10/29/2025|||
In the end, it's still just a text editor. Don't expect that you will get things done n times faster than in vscode without extra effort added.

  > I'm a VSCode user and when I hear people talk about neovim and it customizability
I think it's more customizable than vscode, but you need to learn some lua or vimscript to customize it. Back then I tried to create some custom keybindings in vscode and realized you can't add new ones, only modify what exists. While (n)vim provides you with out-of-the-box flexibility and more if you use something like LazyVim.

  > Is it because it's faster?
What I retroactively like about (n)vim is that, after the initial learning cost, it turns out the default nvim keybindings are transferable to many UNIX tools (less/more, man, journalctl, etc). It feels much more comfortable to write some code in nvim, open up a terminal, and then `man X` without mentally switching the keybindings.

  > Maybe it's because it's an editor you can easily use while ssh'd into a remote machine?
Actually, rather than nvim itself, it's more like vim is already preinstalled in many popular server distros. It's sometimes a huge time saver in cases where you're unable to install additional packages to edit some config/code/text files, just type `vim`/`vi` and you're good to go.

I did convert myself from a minimal vscode setup (disabled everything & only LSP extensions) to LazyVim nvim a few months ago. I had to tweak my .config/nvim, relearn Lua again, and read the manual. It took me about a week to settle things down and get used to basic nvim bindings.

After another week of suffering trying to fix JDTLS (Java LSP) integration, I'm enjoying my nvim setup. Unlike vscode sync which requires you to login, I could just git clone my `.config/nvim` and I'm good to go.

DauntingPear7 10/29/2025|||
If you dislike the terminal or aren’t comfortable there, you should try using the vim keybinds for VSCode. They’ll get you most of the way there, and the rest is a lot of customization to get things how you like. The vim motions are the best part! They take a while to get used to, but they’re incredibly convenient.
joshdavham 10/29/2025||
Thanks! I've also heard this advice before elsewhere.

Also question: is there much of a reason to switch to neovim after learning vim motions in vscode?

iLemming 10/29/2025|||
I don't want to sound like "advising", because long-term recommendations often carry the personal weight with them- whatever I tell you worked (or didn't) for me had an effect on me - it's never guaranteed to have any implications on someone else's life.

But here's what I learned after a long time trying different things and what's worked.

Don't try to find objective reasons for making big shifts in your workflow - be that a change of your major tool, language, technique, or paradigm. What I mean is: don't try to decide if any concrete tool would be good for you. Instead, try to understand the big underlying idea behind the tool. Once you comprehend the abstraction, choosing a concrete implementation of that idea wouldn't really matter - you can carry the big idea with you regardless of one concrete implementation.

In practice, here's what I mean: the idea of vim-navigation is absolutely beautiful, pragmatic, and fantastic, and it's positively worth every minute of the initial learning curve. It's really not that hard - it only requires just a bit of dedication and discipline. I honestly don't understand programmers who choose to be in this field, yet outright reject the mere idea of it after trying it for like six minutes.

Just go with it - you probably will hate me, everyone else in this thread, and yourself for a few days, but then it will grok. Once you have a good understanding of its tenets, you could easily take it to whichever medium you choose to stay in and it doesn't even have to be neovim.

Neovim might be great for you, and maybe not even as a concrete tool to achieve defined goals, but even as a head-start medium to understand the 'big idea' of vim-navigation.

Finally, whenever picking up a new thing, maybe don't try to find elevator pitches. After the initial acquaintance - Wikipedia, GitHub pages, etc. - google instead: "Why does [that thing] suck..." and maybe try instead to find compelling reasons to remain skeptical. Trying to remain unconvinced may help you find perspectives for why a certain idea is a matter of fact might be a good one to have in your pocket.

joshdavham 10/29/2025||
> the 'big idea' of vim-navigation

What is the 'big idea'?

iLemming 10/29/2025||
"The Idea" here I think is in the revelation of the ultimate preeminence of text in a programmer's life. Plain text deserves our utmost attention, yet many programmers overlook its significance and rarely give it deliberate thought.

"Text can convey ideas with a precisely controlled level of ambiguity and precision, implied context and elaborated content, unmatched by anything else."¹

Vim-navigation provides a mental and spatial "language" that enables efficient text manipulation through keyboard input. Rather than forcing your brain to process raw character chunks on the screen, it allows you to reason about text in meaningful units: letters, words, paragraphs, tags, nested structures - e.g., "delete everything between parentheses" - and more.

Sadly, we keep moving away from plain text conventions, making our work increasingly complicated. Have you ever tried quickly extracting text interwoven with code from Slack into your editor? Ever gotten mad when websites won't let you copy the content or use colors and fonts that make it unreadable?

I implore every programmer to reject the status quo and reclaim agency over text interactions - always find ways to deal with text on your own terms. For instance, I'm reading this thread and typing this very comment in my editor. Why wouldn't I? It has all the tools I need for it - vim-navigation, thesaurus, dictionaries, translation, etymology lookup, LLMs, and tons of other tools.

Final point: do not assume code is somehow different. Code simply is structured text. Don't try to find perfect "code editor", prioritize plain text. Good plain text editors are the best code editors, but even the most sophisticated IDE at some points brings mostly frustration if it cannot nicely handle the simplicity of plain text.

___

¹. Graydon Hoare. Always bet on text - https://graydon2.dreamwidth.org/193447.html

PhilipRoman 10/29/2025|||
When using vscode or its derivatives, I find the customizability is very limited. You have a couple of settings, but any new functionality basically requires writing a whole new extension and nobody really does that.

Meanwhile with vim I often add one or two lines to a local vimrc script which adds some project-specific command or keybind. For example - take ioctl name under the cursor, translate to the handler function name and open corresponding driver file in split view. It only saves a couple seconds but makes it so much more natural to analyze code. I have no clue how I would go about doing that in vscode.

jes5199 10/29/2025|||
I used vim for decades and the sensation is that I can hold the code in my hands and manipulate it directly. Other editors feel like I’m wearing thick gloves, can’t move correctly.

but it’s like learning to play the piano, it only feels natural after years of practice

nowadays I’m faster with Cursor so it doesn’t matter as much

joshdavham 10/29/2025||
So you use Cursor now? Do you at least still use vim motions there?
jes5199 10/29/2025||
no, emulated vim motions annoy me because they’re always slightly wrong, especially for the interesting stuff like multi-line selections. Or, worse, I’ve got stuff in my muscle memory from the `surround.vim` plugin that isn’t emulated. Easier to just open vim in a terminal if I want to do surgery on a file.
yogorenapan 10/29/2025|||
Used to use VSCode. There was a point in time where it felt clunky on Wayland due to electron.

Neovim worked the same just about everywhere and I could choose my terminal. Especially with tiling, for me it's just feels better.

LogicHound 10/29/2025|||
If you like using VSCode and are productive in it, keep on using it.

The big advantage of vim/neovim is that you can do everything in the keyboard and it can be very efficient. It is also lightweight.

However the learning curve is massive IME. I don't like either and pay for Jetbrains tooling.

kgwxd 10/29/2025||
For one, you don't have to figure out how to remove whatever random AI UI element and integration MS decided to introduce and turn on by default every update.
killerstorm 10/28/2025||
I don't think "taste" in UI-adjacent things is important.

Tinkering habit is kind of important as even small interactions help to build an internal model of how things work, how to operate them, etc. And this model might generalize.

Herring 10/28/2025||
If you're going to make changes, make big changes. Learn to squat 100kg. Finish a triathlon. Learn intermediate Chinese. These are all impactful goals you can hit in a year, worth way more than colors and fonts.
porphyra 10/29/2025||
Web designers with good taste in colors and fonts often make more money than weightlifters, triathletes, and the average Chinese speaker.
kridsdale3 10/28/2025||
Nobody who is raising children is able to do those things in a year.
stavros 10/29/2025|||
Raising a child well is also an impactful goal.
ungreased0675 10/29/2025||||
Millions of people with children do those things every year.
Herring 10/29/2025|||
Increasingly many aren't raising children either. I'm trying to move to a saner country.
kayodelycaon 10/28/2025||
What exactly does "taste" mean in this context? Taste is about artistic quality. Aesthetics is generally a tertiary concern when it comes to software or hardware tinkering. That assumes it's a concern at all.

And while I'm talking about artistic quality on HN, I have to take some obligatory potshots at the website in question. When I have to use Safari's reader mode to see what you wrote, something has gone terribly wrong.

PantaloonFlames 10/28/2025|
I know everyone is busy but the author provides the definition explicitly:

> And what I mean by taste here is simply the honed ability to distinguish mediocrity from excellence. This will be highly subjective, and not everyone’s taste will be the same, but that is the point, you should NOT have the same taste as someone else.

Concisely, discernment.

So your comment about “artistic quality” may apply. But from your ends sentence It seems you equate “artistic quality” to aesthetics , and I don’t think that’s what the author intended.

kayodelycaon 10/28/2025||
That's on me, I missed that.

If you could indulge me a bit, the author in me wants to be pedantic about this. :)

In my defense, changing the definition of a term at the end of the article is begging to be misunderstood.

bakugo 10/29/2025||
> GitHub desktop rather than the cli (at the very least)

I keep hearing this same "GitHub Desktop bad, git cli good" take, but I just don't see how the cli can compete terms of things like being able to go through each changed file, see a clean visual representation of all my changes, and to choose exactly what lines I want to commit just by clicking on them.

Rileyen 10/29/2025|
I’m starting to believe that taste in code isn’t something you’re born with. It’s something you build after getting burned by your own mistakes again and again. I used to think some code just looked nice, but now I can explain why it works.

How did you develop your sense of taste in code? Any stories or lessons worth sharing?

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