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Posted by ForHackernews 2 days ago

SailfishOS: A Linux-based European alternative to dominant mobile OSes(sailfishos.org)
351 points | 165 comments
not_another_hat 2 days ago|
I've been using SailfishOS since 2014. Jolla 1, Xperia X, Xperia XA2 and currently Xperia 10III. I also have used Android phones and iPhones at work.

For some people the downsides are lack of apps. The few Android apps I use work just fine with the current hardware. Sadly I still have to use WhatsApp for a while, but for Signal there is a native app, WhisperFish.

The main thing to me is that SailfishOS is a Linux on your pocket. You can ssh into it, sync stuff with rsync or syncthing, edit your stuff with vim, have cron do stuff, or what ever you like. My old phones I use as remote sensors now.

There was a point that I tried to switch to iPhone. I struggled for a long time to get on par with the usability that I had with SFOS. I came pretty close, but the card house of different apps I had to build was pretty unreliable.

My phone is also my wifi hotspot. If I turn on vpn on my phone, then all the traffic from every connected device goes via vpn. I couldn't get iPhone to do this.

The team behind SailfishOS is pretty small, and regrettably shows in many areas. But still for me the clear winner of these three. It's not for everyone, but if you know your way around Linux it's great :)

So, not an Android or iPhone killer, but a good solid platform. The newest version 5.0.0.71 came out just a few days ago.

laserbeam 2 days ago||
This is a mobile OS, right?

I go to the homepage. Zero screenshots. I go to the User Experience page. Zero screenshots. I even go to Design Principles under the UX page. Zero screenshots.

Talking about mobile phone design is like dancing about architecture. Show the thing or bust.

usr1106 2 days ago||
I type these words on my year old Sailfish device. I had 2 other ones for roughly 10 years altogether.

The UI is astonishingly polished. It has not changed a lot for 10 years, but still nice to use. There is e.g. the tutorial video that comes installed on every device. Sorry, probably won't have time to share it later, I have a funeral to organize when I get out of bed. Maybe some other user can if it's not on Youtube.

The biggest problem areas IMHO:

- No hardware that meets my reqirements. The current one is too big for my pockets / my taste. It's not very good HW either, in the period when Sony Xperia were supported the situation was different. Even the original Sailfish phone over 10 years ago was relatively better at the time.

- Predictive keyboard is gone. I understand it's a licensing issue that they cannot offer it anymore. Blame Apple and Google for killing all small players.

- There is a severe maintenance backlog in many places and it's probably also growing. The browser is based on Firefox with a 2 digit version number. It crashes on many bloat sites and Cloudflare blocks it for being too old. I severly hope it won't crash now before I click reply. (I guess most users use a Browser on the Android compatibility environment)

laserbeam 2 days ago|||
My point is not that it’s bad UX or not, my point is the website is bad at selling me their product and could never convince me that it’s good.
usr1106 2 days ago||
I understood your point. As a long time user I am not familiar with their Web site. I suffer from their lack of technical resources. But I have no doubt they also have a lack of marketing resources. They are just too few people.
m4rtink 2 days ago||||
Sony Xperia 10 series devices are still supported - including Xperia 10 V which is quite recent.
usr1106 2 days ago||
It says there is no license for 10 V yet. Have not looked into the details for a long time, but I guess the reason for that is that it's considered beta with too many bugs / features not working?
mariusor 1 day ago||
There is a beta OS release which I think can be used for free. As far as I know there are still hardware issues with it.
poetaster 1 day ago||
The hardware issues are camera related. As in the camera is not operational. They are working on it. Sigh.
dotancohen 1 day ago|||

  > The browser is based on Firefox with a 2 digit version number.
The OS runs (probably some subset of) Android applications, no? Is Mozilla's build of Firefox not supported?
usr1106 1 day ago||
Yes, there is Android app support. Firefox should work without major problems (I use it rarely.) But it's kind of backwards, first offering a Gnu/Linux phone, but then a fundmental application like web browser should be run under Android.
dotancohen 1 day ago||
Is it actually run in an Android VM?

I use an OS as a step to run applications. Why would someone use Sailfish if it can not run applications, or do they expect mobile development firms to start supporting a distant third OS? Serious question, there is a real chicken and egg problem here.

I think that I have simple needs from a mobile OS. CalDAV and CardDAV sync, provide a mobile hotspot, record calls. On Android those functions are provided by applications - so I consider myself a user of these applications, not a user of Android. I'm probably the ideal customer for a Sailfish OS, so long as it provides these features or can run apps that do.

forgotpwd16 1 day ago||
It runs a container within which runs AOSP. Cal/CardDAV sync is provided with (official) plugins for the stock Calendar/Contacts apps, mobile hotspot is built-in in Settings, and call record is built-in in Phone app.
dotancohen 9 hours ago||
Seriously, it already supports everything I need? I'll start taking a closer look. Thank you.
forgotpwd16 2 days ago|||
Homepage has dozens of screenshots as well as descriptions. Submitted link isn't the homepage but '/info'. That said screencasts will've been even better because for long-time a distinction/advantage Sailfish had over Android/iOS was being heavily gesture-based.
seu 1 day ago|||
Videos and pictures here https://commerce.jolla.com/products/jolla-community-phone
madduci 2 days ago|||
Are there cheap devices running it (< €250?)
usr1106 2 days ago|||
I guess you could get a (not much) used C2 at that price. Many users have given up. Ask in the forum.
nineteen999 15 hours ago|||
Love the Frank Zappa quote in there. Nice one.
xaxaxa123 2 days ago||
I just watched two videos and saw multiple screenshots. lol.
MrDrMcCoy 2 days ago||
I would seriously consider SailfishOS if it shipped on decent (recent) hardware that was available in the US. The last good experience I had with it was on the Xperia XA2, but that hardware was turned into ewaste by the VoLTE requirements of US carriers. Although they claim to run on more recent Xperia phones, they don't have full hardware support, and aren't on the most recent models. If I'm going to pay for a phone OS and hardware to support it, I want some assurance it won't be total jank.
izacus 2 days ago||
Well you'll need to talk to your monopolistic carriers then. US mobile innovation is dead for the foreseeable future due to them, all new innovation is happening in China and other SE Asian markets.

You just need to be a good consumer and buy that iPhone that Verizon orders you to have with their blessing.

kube-system 2 days ago|||
Carriers in the US restricted the phones people used in the 00s and early 10s, back when there were short model whitelists, CDMA networks, and radios with only a few bands… but not so much today. Global market GSM phones activate pretty much on any US carrier just fine today.

2/3g deprecation and VoLTE is precisely because US carriers are pushing forward with new tech.

izacus 1 day ago|||
As of 2025 both AT&T and Verizon (plus, as a downstream their MVNOs) have a whitelist of allowed phone models and block connection of other phones even if they're compatible with the network.

See https://www.att.com/scmsassets/support/wireless/devices-work...

To be whitelisted, the phones need to go through onerous testing process that goes way beyond just checking for network compatibility.

kube-system 15 hours ago||
I know there are phones that work on ATT that are not on that list.

Regardless, my point is that the situation has vastly changed over the past 20 years. It wasn't that long ago that you could walk into carrier's store in the US and literally every phone that was allowed on the network was on the shelf.

numpad0 1 day ago|||
There were no activation for GSM phones. You insert a whitelisted SIM and the phone would just register(login) to the network. The network doesn't care. Phone might care, but it's processed instantly on the modem. It was Apple that added online "activation" gimmick to it.

"CDMA" networks built on proprietary Qualcomm cdma2000 standards used its equivalent of eSIM, and that was why it required special trusted phones for OTA programming. It was also used by Verizon which IIUC had better coverage than others so lots of people would have had memories of having to go through something akin to Apple activation.

izacus 1 day ago||
I had people that got blocked on their fully working Xiaomi phones in US (and which still work when they roam on a foreign SIM card) in ~2024 when AT&T decided to block off all "unknown" phones. So I'm not sure why do you thing that's a thing of the past.
amazingman 2 days ago||||
What you are describing is much more accurate of the US cell carriers before the iPhone. I remember paying $20/mo (to the carrier) for a terrible mail application on a feature phone. The iPhone's AT&T deal saved us from that situation.

What are some of the innovations you're referring to?

JumpCrisscross 2 days ago|||
> before the iPhone

And MVNOs.

izacus 1 day ago|||
This came back with first Trump era so your knowledge is out of date.
mardifoufs 2 days ago|||
Huh? You think that the VoLTE requirement is something unique to the US? What new innovations are you referring to by the way?
m4rtink 2 days ago|||
I have been using Xperia 10 III as my main phone for years with Sailfish OS just fine.

Looks like they also support up to Xperia 10 V & there is the Jolla C2 community device:

https://docs.sailfishos.org/Support/Supported_Devices/

MrDrMcCoy 2 days ago||
I remember not too long ago seeing a similar table from Jolla that showed these devices, but also included a breakdown of specific hardware features that were not fully working. Was there a major update in the last few months that cleared that up?
usr1106 2 days ago||
Not following things in great detail, but I would dare to answer: Zero updates to the situation you describe for roughly a year.
aapoalas 1 day ago|||
I think you can install it on Xperia X 10 III, and IV (which I have) is in a long-toothed beta.
mouse_ 2 days ago||
Gosh I miss my XA2.
not_another_hat 2 days ago|||
XA2 was the perfect fit for my hand. I cracked the screen pretty badly, but now it has a second life as a timelapse shooter :)

Recently I bought another to have a spare. Cost me 50 €.

BoredPositron 2 days ago|||
The battery life was insane for the time.
ho_schi 2 days ago||
SailfishOS and the Jolla One were good (awesome usability) But the integration of Android was a horribly failure. It is like WINE, half working applications preventing native ports of quality. I left the boat.

After that Jolla failed with the tablet. Then they didn’t deliver a successor device for Jolla One and provided SailfishOS only as aftermarket OS. You remember the Android problem from above? The hardware of others, without official support? That is calling for problems.

And to make everything worse Jolla started a cooperation with Russia in 2015. According to Wikipedia they quit it in 2021.

Hint about compatibility and APIs

Never try to be compatible to an environment which doesn’t want to maintain interoperability with you.

pfix 2 days ago||
Funny. This is the opposite of what https://blog.hiler.eu/win32-the-only-stable-abi/ states :D

And there's a lot going on with Proton and the Steam Deck, so I don't think this is a valid argument.

ho_schi 2 days ago||
Why games on Windows ship their own C++ Redistributable? Well, the same problem. And for the very same reason macOS app bundles come with a lot libraries and we still see a lot updates after every macOS release.

A lot of known issues can be avoided with more experience and cooperation before changes happen.

Before anybody mentions Proton. Because always somebody mentions Proton?

Proton is WINE. But maintained by Valve. Which requires a lot resources of Valve (not of the users). But the key is Steam! Valve is controlling the Steam store.

It is still bad and Valve shall press hard on native ports (e.g. Linux only Steam Awards). Reducing the long term workload for Valve. WINE is not a solution and remains a workaround. That is why we use Inkscape and not Adobe.

PS: Remember when Apple dropped iOS 32-Bit? And PPC? And the classic APIs? Microsoft is trying to remain bug compatible. The problem? They’re bug compatible! My thinking is similar to Torvalds, Linux, GNU (GLIBC/GLIBC++, Systemd and Wayland shall strive for compatibility when possible. Users love compatibility. Programmers love compatibility. But it is hard work. It becomes difficult when security implications are involved. As long only re-compilation is need for compatibility I’m fine. When we need to adapt code I’m getting unhappy.

adastra22 2 days ago|||
Sure, guess what is the most durable and long lasting ABI on Linux? Win32 via WINE.
ekianjo 2 days ago|||
> native ports

Native ports have huge problems as well. Most of them are hardly maintained and stop working years down the road.

ho_schi 1 day ago||
People say that. Don’t call out the bad examples (there are some!). The never mention the good examples?

    ioQuake3 - still work's
    CS2 - still works
    HL1, HL2, CS1,CSGO - still works
    Unrailed - still works?
    UT2003 - there it is getting hard, unmaintained since ca. 2003. But it is doable if you want it.
    Quake3 - same as above.
Most bad ports were made by inexperienced developers. And honestly, these people need to learn! Especially Windows developers which aren’t Linux users are causing the problems. Linking weird 3rd party libraries which aren’t itself is a receipt for disaster. Which indicates planing mistakes in early stages. A bad sign is when they start to package for specific distributions…run as fast as you can.

I would look to applaud the high quality work id and Valve or Daedalic. Weirdly Microsoft ships a port of Minecraft. Valve now ships the Linux-Runtime to ease ports. And Flatpak allows developers which want to package itself (weird hill to die on…) doing it.

MayeulC 1 day ago|||
Most of these are actively maintained though. Older ports, such as UT2004, still work but a few upgrades give a much better experience: SDL2-compat (and now SDL3-compat) really helps, as it brings compatibility with newer APIs (pulseaudio, Wayland, newer controllers, etc).

Please use SDL when targeting Linux!

poetaster 1 day ago|||
Exactly! SDL2 apps run well on SFOS :)
ho_schi 1 day ago|||
True.
DrScientist 21 hours ago||||
It's about the quality of the port or whether the original software was written with portability in mind?

Take Quake for example. It's highly portable ( I remember playing on Irix ( Silicon Graphics workstation OS )), Carmack wrote highly portable code.

ho_schi 10 hours ago||
That’s it!
d3Xt3r 1 day ago|||
Don't forget all the opensource ports/engine recomps that (still) work great on Linux:

- OpenJazz (port of Jazz Jackrabbit)

- OpenOMF (One Must Fall 2097)

- OpenMW (Morrowind)

- Devilution X (Diablo)

- SDLPoP (Prince of Persia)

- RVGL (Re-Volt)

- R.E.L.I.V.E. (Abe's Oddysee)

- Ship of Harkinian (Zelda OoT)

- 2Ship2Harkinian (Zelda Majora's Mask)

- Super Mario Bros Remastered

... and probably lots more that I missed out.

m4rtink 2 days ago|||
Proton is based on Wine and is a major factor behind the success of Steamdeck and SteamOS.

Also Sailfish OS Android emulation is quite good, good or even the best one I used on the Android emulation front.

ho_schi 2 days ago||
See the other comment. Because I knew somebody will mention Proton. Because always someone mentions Proton :)

PS: I'm rather sure Jolla never emulated Android.

ho_schi 2 days ago|||
Does anyone know if Jolla ever published the full source-code? The promised back in 2013.
mpol 1 day ago|||
There are plans now in 2025 to work on this slowly. A few apps have recently been opened up. More are coming. So it is underway.

In 2015 Jolla were bought by Russian owners. They didn't understand open source or free software, they just wanted something for the Russian market.

In 2021 these ties were broken, but it took a long time since the Russian owners didn't respond in any way. It is only two years or there about that they are on their own feet again. They are still severely understaffed.

rzerowan 1 day ago||
The OS was 'licensed' to a Russian distro as AuroraOS , not sold.Its still belongs the Finnish company.Note , that was their biggest install base and revenue source they cut themselves off from.
mpol 20 hours ago||
Jolla had ROS Telecom as an investor since 2015, which might have held a majority.

A few years ago the Russina investors were unresponsive. The Finnish people from Jolla set up a new company and had all property moved to that new company through a court case. It's not the same company as before.

usr1106 2 days ago||||
Don't know 100% sure. But would dare to claim most UI apps are still closed source. All the basic libraries and probably most daemons are open source. In the HW adaptation it looks bad again, but there Sailfish is not to blame.
poetaster 1 day ago||||
They've been opening up bit by bit. First stuff like 'jolla-weather', recently, the notes app and numerous bits in the backend ... Currently sync for nextcloud system integration is in the works.
Foobar8568 2 days ago||||
Jolla made a lot of promises over the years....
frm88 2 days ago|||
Not openly published but they will send it to you on request.
mempko 2 days ago||
The android support improved a lot such that all the apps I used worked there.
ho_schi 2 days ago||
Thanks. Jolla stopped porting newer Android APIs to the Jolla One early. Which rendered the Android support quickly useless.
usr1106 2 days ago||
The Android environment is completely different now. The old one stopped at 4.4 for many years. The new one is version 13. Problem was the kernel. Not something Sailfish as a small company could really control.
remix2000 1 day ago||
Mhm, this is a proprietary OS developed by a dilapidated company… Here is another OS sharing the Nokia/MeeGo heritage, except fully open source and actively developed (not ready for general use either, AFAICT [yet]): https://nemomobile.net/
mrbn100ful 23 hours ago|
Comparing Jolla to Nemo with the argument 'actively developed' is a huge stretch.

Nemo is a great project, but only build by one guy (neochapay) in his spare time.

Jolla still has ~5 full-time engineers and a super active community.

BoredPositron 2 days ago||
I am not a fan anymore I used it for over a year on a XPERIA XA2. It's usable but barely so. The Android layer usually craps out with heavier apps or crawls to a halt. Most of the native apps are really basic I would compare them to early Windows Phone apps in functionality and UX. The UX itself is an odd mix of really intuitive and absolute horrible. It seems like they are missing focus and the felt development stalled for some years now. I hope plasma or gnome get more momentum because this isn't a viable alternative for 90% of smartphone users. Meego was better and I don't understand why they pivoted in the direction they are going now. It's certainly opinionated.
Andrex 2 days ago|
Man I wish more dev work was put into the mobile Gnome Shell. It's so, so close to being there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6vCWFleBHk

lejalv 1 day ago||
I am surprised that nobody has mentioned yet the (seemingly) functional Linux mobile OS/device: the FLX1s from furilabs (https://furilabs.com/).

User reviews seem very compelling, does anybody here have experience with it (especially if you can compare with unofficial Android ROMs, Sailfish OS, or Postmarket OS)?

raphman 2 days ago||
I have been using SailfishOS phones as my main driver for ten years now. Some random, personal, possibly uninformed thoughts:

- It is not for everyone. Some Linux experience and willingness to tinker with it is helpful.

- Despite the many limitations, I love the UI, the spirit, the platform, and the community. I fear the day where I have to switch to a different OS.

- Many Android apps can be run via the AlienDalvik/AppSupport middleware. However, raw BLE is not supported. Thus, most e-scooter apps won't work. My banking app runs okay-ish.

- Google Play Store and Google Play Services can be installed by following non-trivial tutorials. I don't use them.

- The hardware abstraction layer that makes proprietary Android drivers work with SailfishOS is cool.

- QML and C++/Python/JS allow for easy, rapid app development. The custom widgets have a unique, consistent, simple style.

- As most of the UI is written in QML, it is possible to adjust and extend most of the UI shell and the base applications just by editing these resource files on the phone. For example, one can add additional widgets to the lock screen or change animation speeds.

- A nice tool, Patch Manager allows transparently and reversibly applying such modifications. This is so cool, even though the patches often have to be adapted for each major OS version.

- Jolla, the Finnish company behind SailfishOS is tiny and had to let go a lot of engineers and supporting staff a few years ago. Development has slowed down significantly.

- There are about two dozen very active developers in the community who write awesome apps. There are native clients for Discord (no voice/video), Signal, Telegram, Slack, Mastodon, Hacker News, etc.

- Unfortunately, the browser is stuck with outdated Gecko (despite heroic efforts by a developer who upgraded it from ESR 78 to ESR 91 [1]).

- Only a few smartphones are supported by SailfishOS - either officially supported by Jolla (e.g., some Sony phones and some Jolla-branded ones) or supported via community ports. Often the hardware support is a little bit buggy.

EDIT: of course, if you visit the forums, you will see quite some criticism of Jolla - and some of it is well deserved. It would be great if there were better hardware, fewer bugs, better support for Android apps, etc. Personally, I feel that Jolla is really trying to make SailfishOS better but that they lack really stable sources of income and have made some less-than-ideal decisions in hindsight. The best solution would be to get EU funding for stabilizing the platform and finding a business model that generates recurring income from large organizations. Selling to private customers without being able to extract recurring income and being dependent on badly-documented hardware is not going to work.

[1] https://www.flypig.co.uk/?to=gecko&list_id=975&list=gecko

KronisLV 2 days ago|
> Jolla, the Finnish company behind SailfishOS is tiny and had to let go a lot of engineers and supporting staff a few years ago. Development has slowed down significantly.

This is so sad and unfortunate to hear.

saubeidl 2 days ago||
This feels like the sort of thing the EU should be giving grants to, especially now that digital sovereignty is something people started to care about
panzi 2 days ago||
That still exists? When I first heard of it many many years ago I had hopes for it. Never heard of it again. I see it is still on Qt5.
OsrsNeedsf2P 2 days ago||
Yes, they've even come out with a phone, but it's only available in Europe[0]

[0] https://commerce.jolla.com/products/jolla-community-phone

grg0 2 days ago||
Videos on that page have more information than the post's link.
saidinesh5 2 days ago|||
Qt 5.6 that too. Probably so that they can keep most of their user space closed source.
indolering 2 days ago||
My understanding is that it met some government requirements that Android did not. Niche for sure but useful in some contexts.
rzerowan 2 days ago|
Funnily enough the only viable deployment was AuroraOS in Russia , which they cut ties with after the war started (pretty shortsighted IMO) as the equivalent US ops merely paused their operations with options for future return. I think Google only stopped monetization of play store from Visa/MC CC ban , while maintianing their operations there. Meanwhile the sailfish guys set their largest successful deployment on fire with no recourse for reapprochment once the peace returns. As im thinking the RU market would be drifting more towards Chines tech ala HarmonyOS etc if they want alternatives to Android/IOS.
m4rtink 2 days ago||
I suggest reading a bit about the brotherly relationship between Finland and Russia- it has not been exactly a Winter Wonderland.

Not to mention the most bloody war on European soil in a century - started by Russia.

rchaud 2 days ago|||
It's an open source project that nobody is getting rich off of, so voluntarily cutting ties with the Russian market doesn't present the sort of moral dilemma that TAM-obsessed, locked-down, for-profit OSes worry about.
veeti 2 days ago|||
AuroraOS was very much a commercial errand by Jolla Oy, not some open source volunteers hacking on it in their free time.

https://www-sttinfo-fi.translate.goog/tiedote/54712711/sailf...

rzerowan 2 days ago|||
Not fully open-source though, as far as i understood it some of the important GUI, android compat bits are propreity and thus need licensing so no easy way to function without them as opposed to the linux kernel.So i think they are in a very similar postion to android techstack wise , its just their biz model requires direct licensing rather than the ad subsidised android. On another note i think this was the rationale for risc-v moving to europe (avoid the geopolitical) so anyone regardless can utilize its designs.
spookie 2 days ago|||
It is a small company in a niche, they were just by trying to survive.

I've not used their OS but have been thinking for a while, and spent some time in their forums. I remember some dev saying this along those lines.

throwuxiytayq 2 days ago||
Don’t be silly, nobody wants that rep.
rzerowan 2 days ago|||
'In Europe' , as noted American ios/androis and their stores still work .At a reduced capacity yeah , but ready to restore links when the time comes around.Ditto for all other major brands (US) even though they arent issuing press releases. From a purely biz perspective they could have gone 'yeah were pausing until blah blah ..' instead of salting the earth on one of their largest/succeesful deployments.
Nextgrid 2 days ago|||
Techbros are bowing down to Trump and the rise of fascism in the US. Why don’t you think they would do the same for Putin the second the geopolitical winds turn around?

Reminds me of a joke - paraphrasing: someone from the US is speaking to someone from the Soviet Union and at some point the conversation mentions Soviet propaganda. The US person asks “you have propaganda?”.

(the punchline in case my terrible paraphrasing doesn’t make it clear is that the Soviet person is aware they are swimming in propaganda, while the US person is totally oblivious to their own gov’s one).

throwuxiytayq 1 day ago||
There’s a slight difference between whatever is going on in EU/US, even at its worst (and it’s getting plenty bad in the US!), and countries like Russia and North Korea. Attempts to make these sound comparable betray a silly worldview, that - coincidentally? - echoes RU propaganda points.
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