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Posted by donohoe 1 day ago

OpenAI signs $38B cloud computing deal with Amazon(www.nytimes.com)
208 points | 222 commentspage 2
cmiles8 1 day ago|
Amazon is a bit late to the announcements party on this front so this comes across as a bit “hey guys, us too!”

Lots of questions on if this makes sense, and highly likely Amazon never gets $38B cash from OpenAI out of this.

mocha_nate 1 day ago||
i think this shows Amazon filling a need Microsoft couldn't. They probably tried, but decided to use Amazon cloud services after reviewing infrastructure needs.
Handy-Man 1 day ago||
MSFT is power constrained.[0]

[0] https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/artificial-intell...

mike_d 1 day ago||
Everyone is. The grids always had a problem supplying enough power to even modestly sized commercial datacenters. This is what kicked off the trend of companies building their own datacenters in obscure cities that used to house large steel mills or other power hungry businesses.

I remember when everyone was racing to produce "datacenter in a shipping container" solutions. I just laughed because apparently nobody actually bothered to check if you could actually plug it in anywhere.

bespokedevelopr 1 day ago||
Amazon still does this. The customers aren’t saas companies in the bay though. It’s militaries, and they’re sent to FOBs.
ahmeneeroe-v2 1 day ago||
>"hey guys, us too!"

In what context? This isn't fashion, being the 2nd mover has benefits which often outweigh the costs.

netdevphoenix 1 day ago||
This looks quite concerning imo. We all know this is a bubble. When the transformer implosion happens, you can be sure that OpenAI will be ground zero. All these investors feeding OpenAI and all these adjacent companies exposing themselves to OpenAI will suffer huge losses. Everyone is chasing growth so hard that they are making questionable choices regarding returns from a far future that may never come. And let's be clear, the future that is going to pay this off is a future where this tech or a direct successor to this tech brings about a level of general learning skills and autonomy that should be pretty close to a third revolution. Anything else is massive loves for all of these companies.
treis 1 day ago||
Nah this is a repeat of Google's early days. They built storage at such a scale that it was hard for anyone else to compete in anything that required storage like email.

OpenAI is doing the same with compute. They're going to have more compute than everyone else combined. It will give them the scale and warchest to drive everyone else out. Every AI company is going to end up being a wrapper around them. And OpenAI will slowly take that value too either via acquisition or cloning successful products.

mdasen 1 day ago|||
But is OpenAI building that compute or are they renting it?

OpenAI and Anthropic are signing large deals with Google and Amazon for compute resources, but ultimately it means that Google and Amazon will own a ton of compute. Is OpenAI paying Amazon's cap ex just so Amazon can invest and end up owning what OpenAI needs over the long term?

For those paying Google, are they giving Google the money Google needs to further invest in their TPUs giving them a huge advantage?

treis 1 day ago||
Practically, it doesn't matter like it didn't matter for Google that storage got many orders of magnitude cheaper. By the time training a novel LLM and serving it to a billion users is trivial in the way that providing 1GB of email storage is today there will be other moats. They'll have decades of user history and a monitization framework that will be hard to overcome.

Google is a viable competitor here.

Everyone else is missing part of the puzzle. They theoretically could compete but they're behind with no obvious way of catching up.

Amazon specifically is in a position similar to where they were with mobile. They put out a competing phone but with no clear advantage it flopped. They could put out their own LLM but they're late. They'd have to put out a product that is better enough to overcome consumer inertia. They have no real edge or advantage over OpenAI/Google to make that happen.

Theoretically they could back a competitor like Anthropic but what's the point? They look like an also ran these days and ultimately who wins doesn't affect Amazon's core businesses.

bespokedevelopr 1 day ago|||
FB seems to have figured it out finally and their stock took a huge hit for the investment of infra. Also, despite being behind in sota models and huge human capital investments for research, I believe they are benefiting greatly from oai and the likes.

Every image/video/text post on a meta app is essentially subsidized by oai/gemini/anthropic as they are all losing money on inference. Meta is getting more engagement and ad sales through these subsidized genai image content posts.

Long term they need to catch up and training/inference costs need to drop enough such that each genai post costs less than net profit on the ads but they’re in a great position to bridge the gap.

The end of all of this is ad sales. Google and Meta are still the leaders of this. OpenAI needs a social engagement platform or it is only going to take a slice of Google.

netdevphoenix 10 hours ago||
> Meta is getting more engagement and ad sales through these subsidized genai image content posts.

Do you have any sources backing this? As in "more engagement and ad sales" relative to what they would get with no genai content

esafak 1 day ago|||
How is Anthropic an also-ran when they lead the enterprise market?
dybber 23 hours ago||
Do they? Doesn’t big corporations just buy CoPilot from Microsoft where they already have a license for Office, Teams, GitHub, Visual Studio, Azure etc.?
esafak 18 hours ago||
By API usage: https://menlovc.com/perspective/2025-mid-year-llm-market-upd...
netdevphoenix 7 hours ago||
You know Menlo is an Anthropic investor, right? The report is likely biased imo.

While I can see Anthropic or any other leading on API usage, it is unlikely that Anthropic leads in terms of raw consumer usage as Microsoft has the Office AI integration market locked down

JimDabell 1 day ago||||
> OpenAI is doing the same with compute.

No, it’s Amazon that’s doing this. OpenAI is paying Amazon for the compute services, but it’s Amazon that’s building the capacity.

kilroy123 1 day ago||||
Google, too, has a lot of compute. Not to mention the chips to power the compute.
pityJuke 1 day ago||
And they own the compute, as opposed to renting some of it. And they have the engineers to utilise that compute.
gizajob 1 day ago||||
If only everyone in the world had compute in their pockets or on their desk…
Keyframe 1 day ago||||
Every AI company is going to end up being a wrapper around them.

the race is for sure on: https://menlovc.com/perspective/2025-mid-year-llm-market-upd...

sipjca 1 day ago||||
seems like a flawed assumption when the cost of tokens -> 0
pphysch 1 day ago|||
Pretty sure this "compute is the new oil" thesis fell flat when OAI failed to deliver on GPT-5 hype, and all the disappointments since.

It's still all about the (yet to be collected) data and advancements in architecture, and OAI doesn't have anything substantial there.

kingstnap 21 hours ago|||
I think GPT 5 is pretty good. My use case is vscode copilot and the GPT 5 Codex model and the 5 mini model are a lot better than 4.1. o4 mini was pretty good too.

Its slow as balls as of late though. So I use a lot of sonnet 4.5 just because it doesn't involve all this waiting even though I find sonnet to be kinda lazy.

pphysch 19 hours ago||
Sure, GPT-5 is pretty good. So are a dozen other models. It's nowhere near the "scary good" proto-AGI that Altman was fundraising on prior to its inevitable release.
Libidinalecon 7 hours ago||
Even more so where is the model that is beating GPT-5? This level that fell flat should have been easy to jump over if the scaling narratives were holding.
XorNot 23 hours ago|||
It's absolutely no longer about the data. We produce millions of new humans a year who wind up better at reasoning then these models but don't need to read the entire contents of the Internet to do it.

A relatively localized, limited lived experience apparently conveys a lot that LLM input does not - there's an architecture problem (or a compute constraint).

pphysch 19 hours ago||
AI having societally useful impact is 100% about the data and overall training process (and robotics...), of which raw compute is a relatively trivial and fungible part.

No amount of reddit posts and H200s will result in a model that can cure cancer or drive high-throughput waste filtering or precision agriculture.

lm28469 1 day ago|||
Like in politics, all they care about is getting out before shtf and pass the bag to the next sucker while making $$$ in the meantime
lizknope 1 day ago|||
Are we at the Pets.com stage of the bubble yet?

I started working in 1997 at the height of the dot com bubble. I thought it would go on forever but the second half of 2000 and 2001 was rough.

I know a lot of people designing AI accelerator chips. Everyone over 45 thinks we are in an AI bubble. It's the younger people that think growth is infinite.

I told them to diversify from their company stock but we'll see if they have listened after the bubble pops

indigodaddy 1 day ago|||
loves is typo for losses I assume?
netdevphoenix 10 hours ago||
Yes, sorry. I can't edit the post anymore
empath75 1 day ago||
You are stating a lot of things as fact that aren't really supported. We don't know this is a bubble, we don't know that there will be a transformer implosion, whatever that means, we don't know that OpenAI would ground zero if this is a bubble and it pops, etc..
indigodaddy 1 day ago||
No one ever knows before these things happen. These predictions are obviously always conjecture, they can’t be stated as fact, ever— at best you can give some supporting evidence often based on similar prior art
random9749832 1 day ago||
What is the end goal? GPT-5 wasn't even a step up from o3.

ChatGPT has 800 million weekly users but only 10 million are paying.

vessenes 1 day ago|
GPT 5 codex is definitely a step up from o3. I could use o3 still for chat, but prefer 5-thinking. Do you still use o3?
markus_zhang 1 day ago||
I don’t know but this feels more and more like jumping by stepping one’s own feet…
JCM9 1 day ago||
Reading between the lines of Trainium left out of the announcement says they tried it, weren’t impressed, and wanted NVidia chips instead.
belval 20 hours ago||
Maybe but I wonder if it's just moving capacity around.

Anthropic is moving to Trainium[1], that will free Nvidia GPUs and allow AWS to rent those GPUs to OpenAI.

[1] https://finance.yahoo.com/news/amazon-says-anthropic-will-us...

Insanity 1 day ago||
I don't think that's super surprising though. Nvidia has deals with OpenAI as well, so not using Trainium might have as much to do with OpenAI keeping Nvidia happy, as with Trainium not being on-par.
JCM9 1 day ago||
Didn’t stop OpenAI doing a mega deal with AMD.

They just didn’t like the chips is the most logical answer. Particularly given AWS has been doing everything they can to pump up interest, and this huge PR release doesn’t even mention it at all. That omission speaks volumes.

Insanity 1 day ago||
Ah that's true, I missed that AMD announcement.
throw03172019 1 day ago||
Will OpenAI models be available in Bedrock?
easton 1 day ago|
Last week's Microsoft deal said Azure was still exclusive: https://openai.com/index/next-chapter-of-microsoft-openai-pa...

But that feels weird combined with this. You can buy OpenAI API access which is served off of AWS infrastructure, but you can't bill for it through AWS? (I mean, lots of companies work like that. but Microsoft is betting that a lot of people move regular workloads to Azure so they can have centralized billing for inference and their other stuff?)

f4uCL9dNSnQm 1 day ago||
It says

> Non-API products may be served on any cloud provider.

I am not sure if Bedrock counts. There are 2 OpenAI models already there: https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/openai-open-weight-models-n...

samcat116 1 day ago||
I would imagine they couldn't offer models through Bedrock. I think this means training and traditional computing workloads for their products (such as the workspaces for Codex cloud)
jgbuddy 1 day ago||
This is crazy, satya punching the air rn
Handy-Man 1 day ago|
I don't think they care that much. They just aren't able to keep up with the infra that OpenAI wants.

https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/artificial-intell...

TheAlchemist 23 hours ago||
"It's only when the tide goes out that you know who's been swimming naked." - Warren Buffett

This bubble is one for the history books !

mkhattab 1 day ago||
These deal numbers have lost all meaning for me.

There’s been some buzz around the official opening of the Grand Egyptian Museum, which I visited last month. That project took 1.1 to 1.2B USD. Double its original budget estimate but still the museum looks fantastic and it feels, tangibly, like it’s worth a billion.

In contrast with all the money spent on AI, it just feels like monopoly money. Where’s the monument to its success? We could’ve built flying cars or been back to the moon with this much money.

Aperocky 1 day ago||
I've been using AI and so did many people I knew. It's resulted in tangible difference in my life.

It's much less likely that I'd drive a flying car and there is 0 chance that I would be the one going to the moon if we spent the equivalent money on those things instead.

malux85 1 day ago||
Me too, once you’ve had a lot of practice with it (like anything) and know how to mitigate some of its weaknesses, then it’s a superpower.

I currently pay 200 USD a month for AI, and my company pays about 1,200 USD for all employees to use it essentially unlimited - and I get AT LEAST 5x the return on value on that, I would happy multiply all those numbers by 5 and still pay it.

Domain knowledge, bug fixing, writing tests, fixing tests, spotting what’s incomplete, help visualising results, security review generation for human interpretation, writing boilerplate, and simpler refactors

It can’t do all of these things end to end itself, but with the right prompting and guidance holy smokes does it multiply my positive traits as a developer

righthand 1 day ago|||
> I currently pay 200 USD a month for AI

> and I get AT LEAST 5x the return on value on that

You make $800 by paying OpenAI $200? Can you please explain how your the value put in is 5x and how I can start making $800 more a month?

> holy smokes does it multiply my positive traits as a developer

But it’s not you doing the work. And by your own admission, anyone can eventually figure it out. So if anything you’ve lost traits and handed them to the Llm. As an employee you’re less entrenched and more replaceable.

malux85 15 hours ago||
>You make $800 by paying OpenAI $200? Can you please explain how your the value put in is 5x and how I can start making $800 more a month?

I estimate that the addtional work I can do is worth that much. It doesn't matter that "I do it" or "The LLM does it" - Its both of us, but I'm responsible for the code (I always execute it, test it, and take responsibility for it). That's just my estimate. Also what a ridiculous phrasing, the intent of what I'm saying is "I would pay a lot more for this because I personally see the value in it" - that's a subjective judgement I'm making, I have no idea who you are, why would you assume thats a tranferrable objective measure that could simply be transferred to you? AI is a multiplier on the human that uses it, and the quality of the output is hugely dependent on the communication skill of the human, you using AI and me using AI will produce different results with 100% certainty, one will be better, it doesn't matter who, I'm saying, they will not be equal.

>But it’s not you doing the work. And by your own admission, anyone can eventually figure it out. So if anything you’ve lost traits and handed them to the Llm. As an employee you’re less entrenched and more replaceable.

So what? I'm results driven - the important thing is that the task gets done - it's not "ME" doing it OR the "LLM" doing it, it's Me AND the LLM. I'm still responsible if there's bugs in it, and I check it and make sure I understand it.

>As an employee you’re less entrenched and more replaceable.

I hate this attitute, this is an attitude of a very poor employee - It leads to gatekeeping and knowledge hoarding, and lots of other petty and defensive behaviour, and it what people think when they view the world from a point of scarcity. I argue the other way - the additional productivity and tasks that I get done with the assistance of the LLMS makes me a more valuable employee, so the business is incentivised to keep me more, there's always more to do, it's just we are now using chainsaws and not axes.

righthand 6 hours ago||
> I estimate that the addtional work I can do is worth that much. It doesn't matter that "I do it" or "The LLM does it" - Its both of us, but I'm responsible for the code (I always execute it, test it, and take responsibility for it). That's just my estimate. Also what a ridiculous phrasing, the intent of what I'm saying is "I would pay a lot more for this because I personally see the value in it" - that's a subjective judgement I'm making, I have no idea who you are, why would you assume thats a tranferrable objective measure that could simply be transferred to you? AI is a multiplier on the human that uses it, and the quality of the output is hugely dependent on the communication skill of the human, you using AI and me using AI will produce different results with 100% certainty, one will be better, it doesn't matter who, I'm saying, they will not be equal.

I disagree, I brought all this up because it seems you are confusing perceived, marketed/advertised value with actual value. Again you did not become 5 times more valuable in reality to your employer or by obtaining more money (literal value). You're comparing $200 of "value" which is 200 dollars to...time savings, unmeasureable skill ability? This is the unclear part.

> I hate this attitute, this is an attitude of a very poor employee - It leads to gatekeeping and knowledge hoarding, and lots of other petty and defensive behaviour,

You may hate that attitude but those people will be long employed after the boss sacked you for not taking enough responsibility for your LLM mistakes. This is because entrenching yourself is really the way it's always worked and those people that entrenched themselves didn't do it by relying on a tool to help them do their job. This is the world and sadly LLMs don't do anything to unentrench people making money.

All I am saying is enjoy your honeymoon period with your LLM. If that means creating apple and oranges definitions of "value" then comparing them directly as benefits, then more power to you.

pphysch 1 day ago|||
How certain are you that you need to pay $200/mo/seat for this value?
whycome 1 day ago|||
I’d rather useful AI tools than a flying car or someone else going to the moon.

But I agree that the numbers are increasingly beyond reasonable comprehension

dngzafigot 1 day ago||
[dead]
ahmeneeroe-v2 1 day ago|||
>it feels, tangibly, like it’s worth a billion

Lot of feeling going on in this comment, but that's not really how money works.

paxys 1 day ago|||
What percent of the world is going to set foot in this museum in the next few years? What percent has used or will use AI tools?
damnesian 1 day ago|
Great, can I buy hallucinated products now?
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