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Posted by Philpax 22 hours ago

Steam Frame(store.steampowered.com)
1685 points | 603 commentspage 7
neves 5 hours ago|
I use glasses. Can I use it?
tripdout 14 hours ago||
> Steam Frame is a PC: ... Just like any SteamOS device, install your own apps, open a browser, do what you want: It's your PC.

Always glad to see this.

ThatPlayer 21 hours ago||
I'm disappointed it seems to have dropped lighthouse tracking with the previous Valve Index. Especially because with the Valve Knuckles controllers are my favorite with how they strap to your hand.
starkrights 21 hours ago||
Per the LTT video [0], the new Steam Frame controllers will have a (separately purchasable) accessory pack which includes a knuckles-like strap. Supposedly the controllers have enough capacitive-sensing ("on every input surface, and on the grips") for knuckles-like five finger tracking.

Linus says "just like" the valve knuckles a couple times, but who knows how they'll feel comparatively. I've personally never used the knuckles, but they seem like they'd have a different enough feel from these to maybe make a difference.

[0]: https://youtu.be/dU3ru09HTng?t=246 - timestampped @ controller section.

ehnto 8 hours ago||
These new controllers look just like the Quest 3 controllers. Ergonomically I really like them, and they have capacitive touch for most surfaces as well.
Fabricio20 19 hours ago|||
This is my main concern with the new headset.. hopefully they have a way to support lighthouse.. maybe as an "upgrade" to the tracking if you already have a lighthouse setup. I play a game called VTOLVR and it's atrocious on the quest with inside-out tracking, because the game VERY often has you looking in a direction where your arm is behind your back or behind your leg (from the VR's perspective) and it completely loses tracking.. literally killing you in game sometimes. Think "looking up and behind you for threats" while your hand is in the throttle/stick for a combat plane.
tart-lemonade 18 hours ago||
It does have IR tracking, so presumably it could be made compatible with lighthouses, but if they don't make it compatible (and currently the page makes no mention of it) I don't know how well it could track objects out of frame considering the cameras are still mounted on the headset.

The controllers also have gyros, but from what I've read dead reckoning from gyros small enough for mobile devices really isn't reliable for extended periods.

ThatPlayer 11 hours ago||
The controllers won't have lighthouse tracking though. The IR tracking is the headset tracking the controller's IR LEDs, which the Index controllers do not have. It might be possible to have the headset IR track the lighthouses, and then use the old Index controllers, which also track the lighthouses.

There's also tools to calibrate the different tracking methods together, but that seems less than ideal.

tart-lemonade 2 hours ago||
Good catch, I just saw IR tracking on the page and didn't investigate further. I can't wait to see some teardowns (physical and firmware) of the device, then we can get a better look at what it is truly capable of.

Though it wouldn't help the controllers, perhaps the expansion port on the headset could be used for a lighthouse-compatible tracker? (One can dream...)

Diti 21 hours ago||
Not to mention the insane precision (I believe it’s something like 1 or 2 mm).
robbiet480 18 hours ago||
Trying to decide if Steam Frame is going to be better than Apple Vision Pro + ALVR + lighthouses... AVP has higher resolution and OLED displays with higher PPD but obviously weighs a lot more.
mobiledev2014 13 hours ago||
I own the Index and Vision and haven't tried this yet. I was considering buying PSVR2 controllers since they're officially supported but maybe I shouldn't bother?
ChicagoBoy11 18 hours ago||
There was a lot of discussion about some work they've done to minimize compression artifacts... that's the biggest drawback for me in terms of ALVR + AVP... I suppose time will tell.
StumpChunkman 20 hours ago||
Anybody know the limiting factor to providing lower IPDs on VR headsets? My wife had always struggled with this with an IPD in the 50s when we were exploring early gen VR headsets. The Frame bottoms out at 60.
daemonologist 14 hours ago|
As you lower the IPD you're scrunching the displays and optics closer and closer together and at some point you mechanically run out of room. You'd need to reduce the FOV or add mirrors or something to get the lenses to fit.

There's probably also an element of it not being worth complicating the design to chase users in the long tail of IPDs. (My IPD is about 72, which is slightly outside the range on the other end for this and most other headsets, despite it being less of a mechanical challenge.)

serf 13 hours ago||
I would've never bet on an Arch being the one that won the gaming market, but here we are. Wild.
foxandmouse 21 hours ago||
Interesting they went with the 8 Gen 3 instead of something like the X Elite. From what I’ve seen, the 8 Gen 3 actually outperforms the Elite in emulation and running PC games. I wonder if that factored into the decision.
craftkiller 21 hours ago||
Excited to see that it uses LCDs instead of OLED! One of the things holding me back from head-mounted displays is the short lifespan / burn-in issues of OLED. Also loving the replaceable batteries on the controller.
marcosscriven 21 hours ago||
Personally I much prefer OLED, especially for VR, and haven’t had any burn in issues with OLED in any form for years.
craftkiller 21 hours ago||
Even modern OLED experience burn-in (despite them announcing every year that "this time we solved the burn-in issue!"): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whuHuM9h88M

VR is particularly bad for this because, on OLED, higher brightness = greater burn-in and VR headsets generally significantly over-drive their tiny displays.

Naturally the solution to all of this is MicroLED which will have the benefits of OLED without the downsides. But until then, the only device I'm using OLED for is my phone (and only because I no longer have a choice).

0x457 20 hours ago||
> Even modern OLED experience burn-in (despite them announcing every year that "this time we solved the burn-in issue!"):

Yes, but it's not degrading as fast as OLED haters makes you think. I spent days playing the same games (so HUD is in the static place) on multiple OLED screens I owned for years. No noticeable burn-in and still looks better than my only IPS screen.

AndroTux 21 hours ago|||
OLED only burns in if the content is static for hours. If your head is that stable while using VR, I give you $5.
t-writescode 21 hours ago|||
OLED is always burning in as a feature of it. It’s just much less noticeable when it’s:

  * cooled aggressively 
  * constantly changing colors (more even wear)
But it is still always losing durability in a steady way.
hnuser123456 21 hours ago||
I used colorcontrol to enter the service menu of my LG C2 and disable all anti-burn-in features. No auto dimming, no auto picture level, no anti-logo, etc. The only one I kept is pixel shift because it's only noticeable if you're looking at the edge of the screen when it moves, it's a tiny movement. I skip the "pixel cleaning" prompt every time it wants me to wait. When I'm gaming in HDR, I use filters to increase the exposure to get the maximum brightness range of the panel. Been using it like that for ~8hrs/day for over 2 years now. Zero detectable hint of burn-in.
Fabricio20 19 hours ago||
If you want a different anecdote, I have a LG C1 that got burn in after a year of use, playing FFXIV. I can see a blue outline of where my minimap and hotbars are. HUD burn-in. The only thing I disabled was the dimming feature, because it's outright annoying to use, where every time i'd scroll it'd make the text on a page illegiblly dark. (Dark mode pages, white text becomes dark gray while scrolling then back to white when stopped... sometimes not!). I moved that TV to the living room and got a non oled samsung instead which is what I use now.
craftkiller 21 hours ago|||
Do your VR games not have static HUDs / UIs? It has been a long time since I picked up a VR game since I no longer have the room.
rft 20 hours ago|||
I have seen different options of "HUDs" in VR games, not all are actually "heads up". Adding them to the proper context sometimes makes more sense than having them floating in mid air like in pancake view. Examples I have seen are 1) ammo count on the weapon directly, 2) score and score board to the side or projected onto the "floor", 3) attached to cockpit elements in space/flight sims and 4) somewhat affected by physics so they rubber band a bit with movements. I can't come up with an example of fully static HUD elements, but I am sure I have seen some.

And even if fully static contents were a problem, I guess the foveated streaming would introduce enough noise to counter burn-in.

ghosty141 20 hours ago|||
Not really, most HUDs are fixed to thigns like your hands, guns, etc. or don't exist at all.

Static objects in your view are VERY nauseating (at least in my experience).

SkyPuncher 20 hours ago||
I'm just not convinced it's really much of an issues now-a-days. We have an OLED in our main space and it's on nearly all day (I like keeping sound on while I work from home).

Zero sense of burn in.

vunderba 21 hours ago||
From the spec sheet:

> Large FOV (up to 110 degrees)

Sigh. More than a decade later and we're still stuck at "submarine periscope" Field of view level. As somebody who's used the Pimax (~180-200 FOV), your definition of "large" may vary.

> Headstrap includes integrated dual audio drivers and and rechargeable battery on rear.

Freaking thank you. Apple failed hard to learn the lesson of - it's not necessarily the weight that matters, it's the distribution of the weight.

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