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Posted by nicosalm 11/19/2025

Precise geolocation via Wi-Fi Positioning System(www.amoses.dev)
256 points | 114 comments
pkulak 11/19/2025|
I use a Firefox preference to pin my location to a spot near, but not at, my house:

user_pref("geo.provider.network.url", 'data:application/json,{"location": {"lat": 45.0, "lng": -122.0}, "accuracy": 128.0}');

I _believe_ this also stops wifi data from leaking anywhere.

notafox 11/20/2025||
Also, I see options:

    geo.provider.use_corelocation: true/false # presumably for tracking on MacOS

    geo.provider.use_geoclue: true/false # presumably for tracking Linux users with Geoclue2 provider [1]

    geo.enabled: true/false # presumably, turns the whole thing off
Some say[2][3], use_ options take precedence over network.url, so you need to set those to false.

It also appears[3][4], that setting geo.provider.testing to true might be required.

[1] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1063572

[2] https://stackoverflow.com/questions/24932199/how-to-change-f...

[3] https://security.stackexchange.com/a/268825

[4] https://stackoverflow.com/a/24937564

flutas 11/20/2025||
There's also a plugin that allows varying levels of accuracy per-site. - LocationGuard

chrome: https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/location-guard-v3/h...

firefox: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/location-guar...

montroser 11/19/2025||
One time I worked at a zoom competitor, and our team got to prototype a "detect if these people are in the same room as each other" feature for dealing with echo cancellation etc, where everyone's laptop would emit a unique high frequency, and everyone's laptop would listen for other frequencies. Of course it worked in pristine conditions and fell down in the real world. But it was a fun experiment...
ctkhn 11/20/2025||
People need to learn manners, nobody should be using video calling without headphones. It's insane whenever someone joins and we hear all their background, feedback of whoever is speaking, etc as if nobody has ever told them to mute or stop using speaker in their life.
krisoft 11/20/2025|||
> People need to learn manners, nobody should be using video calling without headphones.

OK? it still sucks even with headphones. Imagine the following scenario: You are in a meeting using your headphones as you suggest. A coworker a few seats away from you are in the same meeting using their own headsphones. When they talk you hear their real voice reach your ears first (this happens with even the best noise canceling headphones to some extent) and then you hear their voice with some delay from the meeting.

This is not about manners or headphones.

Better meeting software identifies when this is happening and they suppress the streamed voice of your coworker just for you.

thmsths 11/20/2025|||
This is a great answer. But I would add that while a technical solution is welcomed, an organizational one could help too: why are multiple people in the same meeting joining from nearby desks instead of a conference room?
pavel_lishin 11/20/2025|||
There's a downside to the conference room angle; the camera is far away, and the image of the room occupies the same amount of space on my monitor as the seven other heads in the call who are calling in remotely.

So unless I know the voice of everyone in the conference room, I have no idea who's speaking at any given point unless they're also gesticulating wildly.

DANmode 11/20/2025||
Oh, I know this one: your team’s too big.
foo-bar-bat 11/20/2025||||
I was in such a meeting yesterday where multiple participants were required by law to be each in same meeting from different computers in same room and with their mics and speakers on, and same law prevents use of conference room camera speakers and mic. There was a constant and annoying audio echo for everyone.
ctkhn 11/20/2025|||
That is a bonkers edge case that it never occurred to me would happen. I am glad to not be under those regulations
auspiv 11/20/2025|||
Get that law abolished ASAP, sounds ridiculous
jalk 11/20/2025|||
Because all the conference rooms were already booked.
bobdvb 11/21/2025|||
1) I've never had an issue with this on Teams or WebEx calls.

2) When more than one person is on a call, try to find a meeting room. Then everyone else in the desk area doesn't have to suffer.

3) This is why I stopped going to the office when I am in a day full of calls, there's no point in sitting at a desk annoying everyone else.

carstenhag 11/20/2025||||
This is about 3 people in a meeting room joining with their laptops, without a meeting room audio setup (or it being bad)
pinkgolem 11/20/2025|||
... I mean Google meet handles it pretty well
tylervigen 11/20/2025|||
Microsoft Teams does this: https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/discussions/microsofttea...
dewey 11/20/2025|||
That's what Google Meet does too: https://support.google.com/meet/answer/14263133?hl=en-NZ
everdrive 11/20/2025|||
>where everyone's laptop would emit a unique high frequency,

This sounds like an awful idea.

https://www.science.org/content/article/sounds-you-cant-hear...

spike021 11/20/2025||
sounds like how Cisco Teams/Webex could detect if you're in a certain meeting room using an ultrasonic frequency.
ginko 11/19/2025||
Maybe it’s because I studied in Austria where universities generally provide very little handholding to students but I don’t understand the point of compulsory attendance in university lectures. If students think they can pass exams without attending the lectures then they should be able to do that. I certainly did that once or twice when I realized I needed some more credits before the end of the term. It’s a different thing with lab/exercise sessions but your lack of participation there would be noticed anyway.
michaelt 11/19/2025||
My university didn't take attendance either, but some in my country do. As I understand it, the reasons are:

1. Some students think they can skip class and catch up through self-study, but actually they can't. The same I'd-rather-be-partying attitude that stops them attending lectures also stops them finding time to self-study. College is the first time students' time management is put to the test, and some students can't handle it. Giving them some external motivation to get out of bed does them a favour, in the long term.

2. Some courses are discussion-and-debate oriented. Less so in engineering, moreso in arts subjects. If Socratic debate is a key part of the class, students who don't show up will of course lose grades - and accurate record keeping makes sure that's done fairly.

3. Some governments require certain reporting to ensure people getting student visas are, in fact, students. Taking attendance for foreign students is one way to satisfy this.

4. When someone fails a course they'll often lodge an appeal. Perhaps they'll say the course was badly taught, or the exam covered material that wasn't in the lectures. Knowing whether the student attended the lectures helps adjudicate such complaints fairly.

A highly ranked university that attracts smart, self-motivated students has less reason to take attendance - whereas a university with lots of students skipping class, failing and complaining has more reason.

ninalanyon 11/20/2025|||
It was the same when I studied applied physics in England many years ago. No one checked or cared if we attended lectures in the physics and maths departments. In fact anyone could have attended the lectures even if they were not a student because there was always plenty of room. But the law department where my wife studied, at the same university, did check who was attending.

As for laboratory exercises in the physics department, they were in theory compulsory but still no one checked. The final year included a long experimental project that had to be documented and conclusions defended in a viva. Again no one formally checked that we actually did it but as we were grouped into small teams for this anyone who didn't pull their weight would have been reported by their fellow students and would not have had access to the experimental results which would have made it difficult to write it up and defend.

shortrounddev2 11/19/2025|||
Compulsory attendance used to be far less common in colleges, but teenagers in America mature far more slowly than they used to and undergrads are still effectively children. Universities need to babysit them or they'll wreck the dropout rate
mig39 11/20/2025|||
I take attendance (the old-fashioned way) in my college classes for a couple of reasons:

- Some students are "sponsored" by scholarships or organizations that request attendance data. - I want to know the attendance record for a student who is asking for an extension, or extra-credit work, or some other informal accommodation. - I like to draw fancy graphs correlating attendance and final grades.

But other than that, I don't care if students are in class or not. They're adults. Learning is their responsibility.

aidenn0 11/20/2025||
I graduated University in the US in 2004. I never took a class that had mandatory lecture attendance.
denysvitali 11/19/2025||
I've recently vibe-coded "where-am-i", a small CLI that returns your approximate location using the technology described here.

https://github.com/denysvitali/where-am-i

Tbh, I think this geolocation method is amazing, and I'm grateful it exists, because GPS indoor really sucks.

jbmchuck 11/19/2025||
Honest question - what's your use case for needing GPS indoors? I generally know where I am when I'm indoors :)
mcdonje 11/19/2025|||
You're in a large building you're unfamiliar with. Particularly one with an unusual layout, like a mall or hospital.
InitialLastName 11/20/2025||
For a variety of reasons I've set a personal best for time in large hospitals in the last year. They can be very difficult to navigate in the best of times, much less in the less-than-ideal mental state that often accompanies time in a hospital.
denysvitali 11/19/2025||||
Maybe indoors is the wrong term: as soon as you don't have direct sky visibility it's relatively hard to get a position.

Some examples: on a train, on the underground, in a train station, in a mall, in an office building, ...

wongarsu 11/20/2025|||
Probably depends on the construction of the roof and windows. At least on European trains I've never had an issue getting GPS (unless you are in a tunnel or subway system). It takes a bit longer to get the first fix if you don't have AGPS, but no worse than in a car. Same with planes. On the other hand in a building it it pretty much only works next to a window, and malls don't have windows
seba_dos1 11/20/2025|||
Even if you do, it will often take more time to acquire a fix than most people are used to
HPsquared 11/19/2025||||
It's useful in shopping malls, airports, train stations, car parks and so on. Anywhere you need to navigate a large complex.
mingus88 11/19/2025|||
Not OP but navigating large malls, subway terminals, etc is nice
wenyong3124 11/20/2025||
[dead]
seba_dos1 11/20/2025|||
/usr/libexec/geoclue-2.0/demos/where-am-i
0x457 11/20/2025||
Generally yes, but if you go to a giant mall, train station, airport then you usually don'y.
bigiain 11/19/2025||
I assume that smart comp sci kids already have some sort of proxy running on an Android phone that publishes the current in-classroom WiFi environment, and a browser plugin or Linux hack that their stay-at-home friends can run that intercepts the geolocation calls and spoofs the responses with what the in-classroom android phone is seeing.
Genwald 11/20/2025||
The API just returns coordinates to the website and it's fairly easy to spoof on major browsers. You'd just need to know where the classroom is.
incompatible 11/19/2025||
My PC doesn't have any wireless connections and the Geolocation API always fails. I guess I'd fail this course (which is apparently correct, as I was supposed to be attending in person with a laptop.)

Edit: Presumably it would be possible to hack the browser to return a false position.

Edit: Make it a convenient browser add-on, perhaps. There must be other applications.

Edit: pkulak points out that you just have to set a Firefox option. Why do I even comment on things I know nothing about.

nlawalker 11/19/2025||
Oh wow, it's the modern version of the clicker, the physical device assigned to you at the beginning of the term used for classroom participation and attendance checking, and which was most definitely defeatable via "the unpatchable strategy of Having Friends".
palata 11/20/2025||
Now the question: can you spoof your location? Say you are an admin on your system (for instance you run a Linux distro), can you make your OS return the same list of SSID/BSSIDs as your friend who is in the classroom (or as you recorded the day before) to pretend you are there?

Would be a fun experiment, and a nice follow-up post :-).

toomuchtodo 11/20/2025||
https://github.com/adamhrv/skylift but doesn’t use the OS, it broadcasts the necessary beacons with ESP8266 / ESP32 hardware.
ycombinatrix 11/21/2025|||
How come this project needs multiple Skylift devices to work best?

Since wifi antennas are generally not directional, shouldn't one Skylift device be able to broadcast each wifi beacon frame with a different transmission power?

palata 11/20/2025|||
Nice! Still would be cool to do it right from the computer.
varenc 11/21/2025||
I've experienced this unintentionally when I've moved and taken my access point with me. Fresh after moving in, I'll pull out my phone and it'll tell me I'm still at my old house's location, because its using the proximity to my wifi AP's BSSID to determine that. Waited another 30 seconds and it corrected itself.
paxys 11/19/2025||
As the article mentions this tech has been in widespread use for over two decades now. You have likely used it on your phone today without knowing it. GPS is accurate but also very fickle (takes time to get a lock, battery hog, doesn't work great when surrounded by buildings, doesn't work great when inside a building, doesn't work in bad weather). Wifi data is plentiful today in every urban setting, and you can get an exact location in under a second.
doctor_radium 11/20/2025|
I held onto Symbian longer than I should have, but am surprised this practice hadn't crossed my path before now. IMHO it's insidious. It's one thing for a Google Street View car to war scan my WiFi router, but another for my own phone to secretly rat me out. Not that I use Location myself, but I can't stop other members of the household. I assume this is yet another practice that Android forks like GrapheneOS disables?
DANmode 11/20/2025|
Gives you verifiable control over, at least.
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