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Posted by mips_avatar 13 hours ago

Everyone in Seattle hates AI(jonready.com)
766 points | 765 commentspage 11
cwillu 11 hours ago|
“I didn't fully grok how tone deaf I was being though.

[…]

Seattle has talent as good as anywhere. But in San Francisco, people still believe they can change the world—so sometimes they actually do.”

Nope, still completely fucking tone deaf.

kizer 10 hours ago||
In my opinion, the issue in AI is similar to the issue in self driving cars. I think the last “five percent” of functionality for agents etc. will be much, much more difficult to nail down for production use, just like snow weather and strange roads proved to be much more difficult for self-driving car technology rollout. They got to 95% and assumed they were nearing completion but it turned out there was even more work to be done to get to 100%. That’s kind of my take on all the AI hype. It’s going to take a lot more work to get the final five percent done.
spaceguillotine 10 hours ago||
the author makes the connection, people see AI as Asbestos, shoved in everything by profit hungry corps that don't care about what damage it will do in the long term.

Seattle has been screwed over so many times in the last 20 years that its a shell of itself.

mips_avatar 13 hours ago||
Author here if anyone has thoughts
chankstein38 12 hours ago||
Howdy! I personally don't really understand the "point" the article is trying to make. I mostly agree with your sentiment that AI can be useful. I too have seen a massive increase in productivity in my hobbies, thanks to LLMs.

As to the point of the article, is it just to say "People shouldn't hate LLMs"? My takeaway was more "This person's future isn't threatened directly so they just aren't understanding why people feel this way." but I also personally believe that, if the CEOs have their way, AI will threaten every job eventually.

So yeah I guess I'm just curious what the conclusion presented here is meant to be?

mips_avatar 11 hours ago||
I guess in conclusion I'm saying that it's hard to build in Seattle, and that's really unfortunate.
the_af 10 hours ago||
I don't follow why it's hard to build in Seattle. Do you mean before this "AI summer" they struggled, or that with AI they have become too slow because they won't adopt it?
throwaway_dang 12 hours ago|||
Out of curiosity, is this piece just some content that you created in the hopes of boosting your company's mindshare?
mips_avatar 11 hours ago||
I'm just really isolated right now, I've been building solo for a long time. I don't have anyone to share my thoughts with, which is something I used to really value at Microsoft.
nickff 12 hours ago|||
I was under the distinct impression that Seattle was somewhat divided over 'big tech', with many long-term residents resenting Microsoft and Amazon's impact on the city (and longing for the 'artsy and free-spirited' place it used to be). Do you think those non-techies are sympathetic to the Microsofties and Amazonians? This is a genuine question, as I've never lived in Seattle, but I visit often, and live in the PNW.
caconym_ 12 hours ago|||
> Do you think those non-techies are sympathetic to the Microsofties and Amazonians?

As somebody who has lived in Seattle for over 20 years and spent about 1/3 of it working in big tech (but not either of those companies), no, I don't really think so. There is a lot of resentment, for the same reasons as everywhere else: a substantial big tech presence puts anyone who can't get on the train at a significant economic disadvantage.

jfalcon 12 hours ago||||
It depends on how AI affects your economy.

If you are a writer or a painter or a developer - in a city as expensive as Seattle - then one may feel a little threatened. Then it becomes the trickle down effect, if I lose my job, I may not be able to pay for my dog walker, or my child care or my hair dresser, or...

Are they sympathetic? It depends on how much they depend on those who are impacted. Everyone wants to get paid - but AI don't have kids to feed or diapers to buy.

mips_avatar 12 hours ago||||
They kind of are, though I think so many locals now work in big tech in some way that it's shifted a bit. I wish we could return to being a bit more artsy and free spirited
MicrosoftShill 12 hours ago|||
I've lived in the Seattle area most of my life and lived in San Francisco for a year.

SF embraces tech and in general (politics, etc) has a culture of being willing to try new things. Overall tech hostility is low, but the city becoming a testbed for projects like Waymo is possibly changing that. There is a continuous argument that their free-spirited culture has been cannibalized by tech.

Seattle feels like the complete opposite. Resistant to change, resistant to trying things, and if you say you work in tech you're now a "techbro" and met with eyerolls. This is in part because in Seattle if you are a "techbro" you work for one of the megacorps whereas in SF a "techbro" could be working for any number of cool startups.

As you mentioned, Seattle has also been taken over by said megacorps which has colored the impressions of everyone. When you have entire city blocks taken over by Microsoft/Amazon and the roads congested by them it definitely has some negative domino effects.

As an aside, on TV we in the Seattle area get ads about how much Amazon has been doing for the community. Definitely some PR campaign to keep local hostility low.

jfalcon 11 hours ago|||
I'm sure the 5% employee tax in Seattle and the bill being introduced in Olympia will do more to smooth things over than some quirky blipvert will.

I think most people in Seattle know how economics works, logic follows: while "techbro" don't work is true: if "techbro" debt > income: unless assets == 0: sellgighustle else sellhousebeforeforeclosure nomoreseattleforyou("techbro") end else "gigbot" isn't summoned and people don't get paid. "techbro" health-- due to high expense of COBRA. [etc...] end end

sleepybrett 11 hours ago|||
'how much they do for the community' like trying to buy elections so we won't tax them, same thing boeing and microsoft did. Anytime out local government gets a little uppity suddenly these big corps are looking to move like boeing largely did. Remember Amazon HQ2, at least part of the reasoning behind that disaster was seattlites asking, 'what the hell is amazon doing for us besides driving up rents and snarling traffic?'

(.. and exactly how is boeing doing since it was forced to move away from 'engineering culture' by moving out of the city where their workforce was trained and training the next generation. Oh yeah planes are falling out of the sky and their software is pushing planes into the ground.)

caconym_ 12 hours ago|||
It kinda seems like you're conflating Microsoft with Seattle in general. From the outside, what you say about Microsoft specifically seems to be 100% true: their leadership has gone fucking nuts and their irrational AI obsession is putting stifling pressure on leaf level employees. They seem convinced that their human workforce is now a temporary inconvenience. But is this representative of Seattle tech as a whole? I'm not sure. True, morale at Amazon is likely also suffering due to recent layoffs that were at least partly blamed on AI.

Anecdotally, I work at a different FAANMG+whatever company in Seattle that I feel has actually done a pretty good job with AI internally: providing tools that we aren't forced to use (i.e. they add selectable functionality without disrupting existing workflows), not tying ratings/comp to AI usage (seriously how fucking stupid are they over in Redmond?), and generally letting adoption proceed organically. The result is that people have room to experiment with it and actually use it where it adds real value, which is a nonzero but frankly much narrower slice than a lot of """technologists""" and """thought leaders""" are telling us.

Maybe since Microsoft and Amazon are the lion's share (are they?) of big tech employment in Seattle, your point stands. But I think you could present it with a bit of a broader view, though of course that would require more research on your part.

Also, I'd be shocked if there wasn't a serious groundswell of anti-AI sentiment in SF and everywhere else with a significant tech industry presence. I suspect you are suffering from a bit of bias due to running in differently-aligned circles in SF vs. Seattle.

mips_avatar 11 hours ago||
I think probably the safest place to be right now emotionally is a smaller company. Something about the hype right now is making Microsoft/Amazon act worse. Be curious to hear what specifically your company is doing to give people agency.
caconym_ 10 hours ago||
> Be curious to hear what specifically your company is doing to give people agency.

Wrt. AI specifically, I guess we are simply a) not using AI as an excuse to lay off scores of employees (at least, not yet) and b) not squeezing the employees who remain with arbitrary requirements that they use shitty AI tools in their work. More generally, participation in design work and independent execution are encouraged at all levels. At least in my part of the company, there simply isn't the same kind of miserable, paranoid atmosphere I hear about at MS and Amazon these days. I am not aware of any rigidly enforced quota for PIPing people. Etc.

Generally, it feels like our leadership isn't afflicted with the same kind of desperate FOMO fever other SMEGMAs are suffering from. Of course, I don't mean to imply there haven't been layoffs in the post free money era, or that some people don't end up on shitty teams with bad managers who make them miserable, or that there isn't the usual corporate bullshit, etc.

jfalcon 11 hours ago|||
I get the feeling that this is supposed to be about the economics of a fairly expensive city/state and that "six-figure salary", but you don't really call it out.

If it was about the technology, then it would be no different than being a java/c++ developer and calling someone who does html and javascript their equal so pay them. It's not.

People get anxious when something may cause them to have to change - especially in terms of economics and the pressures that puts on people beyond just "adulting". But I don't really think you explained the why of their anxiety.

Pointing the finger at AI is like telling the Germans that all their problems are because of Jews without calling out why the Germans are feeling pressure from their problems in the first place.

IAmBroom 11 hours ago|||
Nope, no one does. This thread is devoid of opinion on the topic.
mips_avatar 11 hours ago||
I think people just have a lot of frustration to get off their chest, which is fine.
rawgabbit 12 hours ago|||
Regarding "And then came the final insult: everyone was forced to use Microsoft's AI tools whether they worked or not."

As a customer, I actually had an MS account manager once yelled at me for refusing to touch <latest newfangled vaporware from MS> with a ten foot pole. Sorry, burn me a dozen times; I don't have any appendages left to care. I seriously don't get Microsoft. I am still flabbergasted anytime anyone takes Microsoft seriously.

robocat 11 hours ago||
> MS account manager once yelled at me

Presumably the account manager is under a lot of pressure internally...

Do they repeatedly yell at you?

Do you know how your <vaporware> usage was measured - what metrics was the account manager supposed to improve?

rawgabbit 11 hours ago||
He was trying to get people to use the Azure unnamed service. I assume others like me did a trial, POC, and immediately ran away screaming.
cosmicgadget 12 hours ago|||
Would love to hear more anecdotes from former colleagues.
mips_avatar 12 hours ago||
One fun one was the leadership of Windows Update became obsessed with shipping AI models via Windows update, but they can't safely ship files larger than 200mb inside of an update.
evil-olive 9 hours ago|||
from your post:

> Bring up AI in a Seattle coffee shop now and people react like you're advocating asbestos.

can you please share the methodology you used to reach this conclusion?

in other words - what is the sample size? how many Seattle coffee shops did you walk into and yell out "hey, what do people think about AI?" (or did you gather the data in a different way, such as by approaching individual people at the coffee shop?)

what is your control group? in other words, how many SF coffee shops did you visit and conduct the same experiment?

nrhrjrjrjtntbt 12 hours ago|||
I like that you shared the insight. Feels like you shared a secret to the world that is not so secret if you work a Microsoft (I guess this is less about the city)

I feel bad for people who work at dystopian places where you can't just do the job, try to get ahead etc. It is set up to make people fail and play politics.

I wonder if the company is dying slowly but with AI hype qaand old good foundations keeping her stock price going.

mips_avatar 11 hours ago||
Well I think it's interesting how much what goes on inside of the major employers that affects Seattle. Like crappy behavior inside of Microsoft is felt outside of it.
the_af 12 hours ago|||
Out of curiosity, did you redact this with AI?

It has all the telltale signs: lots of em-dashes but also "punched up" paragraphs, a lot of them end with a zinger, e.g.

> Amazon folks are slightly more insulated, but not by much. The old Seattle deal—Amazon treats you poorly but pays you more—only masks the rot.

or

> Seattle has talent as good as anywhere. But in San Francisco, people still believe they can change the world—so sometimes they actually do.

Once or twice can be coincidence, but a full article of it reads a tiny bit like AI slop.

mips_avatar 12 hours ago||
I wrote it by hand but I had an AI do some edits. I got the m dash drilled into me by my creative writing teacher in college.
nemomarx 11 hours ago||
I actually think your usage is pretty different from the usual ai style, if that means anything. More traditional?

I'm not sure why you needed it for edits though, since you seem good at writing generally.

smikhanov 12 hours ago||
"Grabbed lunch" is an awful phrase
smikhanov 12 hours ago|||
Oh, and there's also "grok" just few paragraphs later!
mips_avatar 12 hours ago|||
It kind of is
jmull 11 hours ago||
It's almost like the hype of AI is massively ahead of the reality, and the people being directly squeezed by that dynamic don't like how it feels.
lateforwork 12 hours ago||
I love AI but I find Microsoft AI to be mostly useless. You'd think that anything called Copilot can do things for you, but most of the time it just gives you text answers. Even when it is in the context of the application it can't give you better answers than ChatGPT, Claude or Perplexity. What is the point of that?

Satya has completely wasted their early lead in AI. Google is now the leader.

queenkjuul 7 hours ago||
Been meaning to visit Seattle, seems like my kinda place
jansommer 9 hours ago||
AI is such a blessing. I use it almost every day at work, and I've spent this evening getting a Bluetooth to USB mapper for a ps4 controller working by having ChatGPT write it for me, for a bigger project I'm working on. Yes, it's going to take some time to fully understand the code and adjust it to my own standards, but i've been playing a game a few hours now and I feel zero latency and plenty of controller rumble that I'm having fun giving some extra power. It pretty much worked with the first 250 lines of C it spew out.

What's gonna be super interesting is that I'm going to have an rpi zero 2 power up my machine when I press the controller's ps-button. That means I might need to solder and do some electrical voodoo that I've never tried. Crossing my fingers that the plan ChatGPT has come up with won't electrocute me.

j45 8 hours ago||
Why did OP have to mention AI and just ask for feedback on the solution itself and let anything come up organically?

Big tech workers might be perceiving writing on the wall sooner - there have already been some layoffs.

I also find a lot of technpeollemsurprisinglynhabent spent as much time with AI over the past 3 years compared to other techs.

nice_byte 8 hours ago|
Reading some of these comments from fellow seattleites, I'm really quite thankful for having the privilege of being able to completely ignore all of this noise.

There is zero push in my org to use any of these tools. I don't really use them at all but know some coworkers who do and that's fine. Sounds like this is a rare and lucky arrangement.

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